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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    6,579
    The EPA does not develop refrigerants they simply designate which available refrigerants can be used. R-410a is the current alternative to R-22. All manufacturers are committed to R-410a.


  2. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    534

    Cool

    LOL, thats what I been trying to say Norm.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    small island in the Pacific Ocean
    Posts
    558
    In residential all we put in is r410a (carrier and lennox) and it has worked great for us with many happy customers. around 95 F off the grills after 10 minutes . 410 may cause greenhouse gases but has no ODP. the higher pressures have caused no problems just another set of gauges in the van

  4. #17
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Abilene,texas
    Posts
    246

    R-410A

    Look here 410 is a blend and the oil it uses is a magnet for moisture , now lets look at those 2 things alone 1st its a blend so if you have a leak you have to pull it all out and recharge the system this is a great cost to the H/O. If proper vacuum isnt performed you may absorb moisture and it wont be long before the compressor is done. these are both things that are expensive to the H/O.And now we can talk about the high pressures but that has already been covered, I remember when we changed from R-12 to R-22 everyone hated that also they were all worried about the pressures and the change ect this is the same thing all over again only this time the ref. is worse it is a blend and that has never been good for this trade, in my opinon.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    small island in the Pacific Ocean
    Posts
    558
    according to the suva.dupont website on 410a there is no need to recover to recharge, the glide is so minimal (near azeotrope) that you can just top the systems up if there is a leak (of course after the leak is fixed). on heat pump install you add for line length same as you would r22

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    1,651
    ACDude,
    You obviously have not had any r410a training..
    Have you ever heard of a temperature glide..
    r410a if it leaks out can be topped of without any adverse effect..
    Get some training before you make inaccurate statements..
    I have been installing and servicing r410a units since 1998 and have seen far less compressor failures in r410a units and have never had to remove all the charge to top off a unit after a leak repair..

    Get your facts right.. Norm will be along shortly with his yard stick..

    J

    All the drop in blend replacements for r22 that I have heard about leak out unevenly and do require that the unit be recovered and recharged with virgin blended refrigerant..
    I have not heard of any manufacturer that recommends any of the supposed drop in replacement for r22..
    R410 is here to stay and is just as good of a refrigerant as r22..

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    Originally posted by duct dr
    Which product are you refering to doc? EPA has already decided that R22 will no longer be made after 2009. R410a isnt a "drop in", it's a replacement. Even though both freons are hazardous, in our industry the EPA can and will decide which one we use.
    Yes I was referring to 410a is the refrigerant of choice when R-22 is no longer allowed to be used. and that there is no reason to use a drop in for r-22 because it has no legitimate use as of now. Sorry to confuse.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    6

    Smile drop in replacement

    SoRRy wasn't trying to cause such a stir! I heard of this refrigerant several years ago. wasn't tryingh to promote a certin brand. try 417A before you make any comments. ICOR Thanks for your intrest dr duct

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    6
    dr duct dr try r417A hfc sorry wasn't trying to cause any problems. icor

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    What would be the application for it? Why not just use R-22 and not lose capacity if your working on an exsisting system? Find one mfg who will not void the warrnty when it is used.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,573
    417a may, or may not be a good drop in replacement. Who wants to have to carry 5 different gases for a/c, and heat pumps, its bad enough for refrigeration work.

    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    6
    everyone else was jumping off the bridge, why not join them. maybe they invested too much money in it to turn back.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    37760
    Posts
    420
    pros most manufacturer's produce 410 equipment
    13 seer with relatively same size coils and a/h's
    readily available refrigerant
    higher pound per pound capacity
    good refrigerant practices a must

    cons poe oil and all that goes with it
    refrigerant cost
    txv, control and safety switch failures
    good refrigerant practices a must

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