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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5

    Hmm

    Please fill me in on what you as contractors and installers think, feel or know about the implementation of R410A.I am getting mixed answers.

    Thanks
    Hipster in California

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    200
    It doesn't matter what we think,,gotta do what you gotta do

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    47
    For the time being, it looks as it will be "the" new refrigerant. Will some one develope something later that is better/less costly, safer, who knows? Only time will tell. Properly designed/sized/installed systems, work well, and the customer will not know if it is r-22 or r410a.
    Nothing ever stays the same.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    175
    All install and retro' must be completed by the book or else.....Too bad for home owners if corners are cut, good work for the ones who clean up after hacks. Other wise there really is not another alternative.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    534
    Can't really think of any pros or cons about either. All I know is 2010 will mark the end of R22. Its a Govt. thing (EPA). Both freons are hazardous to the enviroment, but both do a good job cooling your house when sized and installed right. Do we have a choice? Right now yes, later on down the road no.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    6,579

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    Great column Norm. For the most part I agree and I want to be sure of a few things mentioned.

    If I understand correctly the burst pressure of the relief for a disposible jug of r-22 when converted to a saturation temperature is the same saturation temperature used to establish the relife valve for the r-410A. In otherwords neither R-22 nor R-410A should be stored in temperaturea above 120 degrees. The R-22 minimum disk rupture point is 340 psig (141 degrees) the R-410A minimum rupture disk is 525 psig or about 138 degrees. So a dot 39 cylinder of R-22 has the sdame potential to blow the soft plug at the same temperature of a jug of 410A. (granted if the 410 pops it will be more violent). With that said, the R-22 should not be exposed to any hihger temps or practices you mentioned for the 410A. The service presure of the tanks is also within 3 degrees F.

    I just wanted to toss that the tanks are basicly rated the same so they should be treated the same and that the 410A jug is just as safe as the R22 jug and likeise we cannot abuse a jug of R-22 simply becuase the pressure is lower.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    6
    I belive r410 is kind of like the beta type viedo tape system that was battling with the vhs systems at the time viedo tapes were new. Beta lost for many reasons. There is a new form of blended refigerant now that offers better efficency than r22 and is completly compatible with current systems and oils. and is epa certified and runs almost the same pressure as r22. r410 has much higher running pressure and costs more to manufacture the coils and piping to handle those pressures. I think r410 will be gone in the next ten years.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    I'll bet R410a won't be gone .

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    534
    what96, what is the name of this "new" freon? R410a IS a blended freon, and will probably be around longer than you think.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    There is no reason to replace it. The industry isnt going to change without legislation and definately will not change just because untrained techs are afraid of it.

    There is virtually no concievable scenerio to use a drop in refrigerant for r-22 in todays market and environment so you might be hard pressed to justify production of such a product at this point.


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    middle georgia
    Posts
    239
    410 is here to stay. In a class I attended last year the instructor mentioned that all of the major compressor suppliers have accepted, and designed around 410-a. You can bet that copeland, having an 80 percent share, will not chase after the flavor of the week. This will not be like all the r-12 crap in the mid 90's. imo
    Please step AWAY from the condensing unit.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    534
    Which product are you refering to doc? EPA has already decided that R22 will no longer be made after 2009. R410a isnt a "drop in", it's a replacement. Even though both freons are hazardous, in our industry the EPA can and will decide which one we use.

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