Can't please everyone temperature wise
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  1. #1

    Angry Can't please everyone temperature wise

    One building I do maintenance in is a 6 story building with standard AC and baseboard heat. The baseboards are wired 4-6 heaters in series per thermostat. That sounds ok before they build offices and walls after, which means some heat is controlled by other locations, ie, a cold cubicle turns on a heater in a walled office. We are currently working to add thermostats and give heaters discrete control. Problem is, I know we are wasting monumental amounts of energy cause the AC runs year round. I walk into a cubicle at 75 degrees, and there is someone in flip flops with a space heater on, which we make several trips resetting breakers cause these whiny babies won't put on their clothes and act like it's friggin' DECEMBER PEOPLE! The AC stats open VAVs that are blowing on large areas. Does anyone have an idea what we can do to try and get this AC off when it's single digits? These people won't listen to their own safety commitee and get rid of the space heaters, which they are glad to go run and buy, but ***** when we tell them to go buy a fan if they are too hot.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,805
    I have the same problem in a few buildings . Get the call THEY ARE FREEZING , and told to see a specific person , get there and ask for SPECIFIC person , um gee he / she is outside having a smoke.

    Had 1 they other day walking around in a PARKA was 75 in his work area , said if I tell them its COLD maybe I can go home.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Milwaukee Wisconsin
    Posts
    984
    Did a lot of banks & offices - same scenario.

    They seem to want it 80 in the winter & 65 in summer (if it's on someone elses nickel).
    or they cry!

    Bet they don't do that at home.

    They also insisted that I shut the heat off at night. Wouldn't believe my instrument grade chart recorder! (Steady 73 @ 30% RH). Seen the flip flop thing in winter too.

    Wasted a ton of time & $$$$$$ trying to appease these whiners.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    104
    Maybe you can look at possibly trying one, or more,
    of the following:

    1.) Lock out the electric baseboard heat completely, thru
    the breaker panels, until the outside air temperature drops
    below a certain point - like 45 or 40 degrees. Do these peo-
    really need the baseboard heat operational if it's over 45
    degrees outside?
    2.) You mention "AC", "AC stats" & "VAVs". Are there actual
    vav boxes in the building? Do they have reheat? If so, may-
    be the reheats are not coming on soon enuf to temper the
    cold air coming out of the vav boxes?
    3.) Are the vav boxes supplied air by vav air handling units?
    If so, is the cooloing DX or ChW? Can you "lock out" the cool-
    ing based on outside air temperature and use outside air for
    "free cooling" (economiser)?
    4.) Could you "reset" the discharge air temperature setpoint
    of the vav air handling unit? Say, for example, use 65 de-
    grees as the "winter" setpoint & 55 degrees as the "summer"
    setpoint? Then the air blowing down on these people in the
    winter wouldn't be so cold ..... but would still be cold enuf
    to handle the heat load in the space.

    hope this was helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,805
    Forgot to add " There is nothing wrong with the HVAC or controls in these buildings , systems were completely gone over with big $ to the owner and recommisioned by 2 seperate outfits.

    The occupants manager agrees there is nothing wrong just cronic complainers.

    I have schools that are like HVAC TEACHERS banks , they are not paying so they want it at the EXTREME.

    Had 1 kid in a school tell me , his Dad was the teacher complaining because he wanted his classroom at 68'F in the summer and 75'F in winter , at home no A/C until the house hit 80'F and in winter it was set for 68'F for heat

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    458

    At the top

    It all starts at the top. Have management write a standard policy or send out an existing one on acceptable temperatures. The if you get a call and it's within those parameters you can walk away.
    Law Of The Thermostat: He who has the thermostat wins!!!!!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Down by the river
    Posts
    1,605
    Quote Originally Posted by simux View Post
    It all starts at the top. Have management write a standard policy or send out an existing one on acceptable temperatures. The if you get a call and it's within those parameters you can walk away.
    gota give them a base line

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Duluth MN
    Posts
    23
    put a simple stat like a honeywell 1029 to dissable the condenser when it reaches whatever temp you set it to. when it warms up you'll have a/c again.

  9. #9
    25 years ago, I worked in a health care facility. It was spring, low '60's outside, but one woman in the office was cold. Management made us start the 100HP boiler, so the radiator would warm her up. They wouldn't allow a space heater.

  10. #10

    Whiners

    Well, management is aware of the issue. I have not been but in one office that was not comfortable. He had a baseboard controlled by someone else, which we are taking it out of line and putting it's own stat on it. The AC runs to every floor, the wall stats are air pressure controlled, you can hear the hiss from them. When they have it set to 70, which is the policy there, and cold is called for, the valve in the duct opens and allows air flow to several ceiling vents. There is no heat ducted what-so-ever. I went to change a light fixture today, and there was a space heater running, unattended while the lady went to lunch, plugged into a power strip no less, while she has her own baseboards, with independent control to her own area. Locking out controls is not an option we don't have the power to do as we own the building and rent it to them, money talks. The only thing I wonder could work to remove heat from walled offices is to put open vents to allow heat to rise above the hung ceiling and maybe allow cold air to drop down, then possibly start making sever so slight adjustments to wall AC stats. Maybe I'm over thinking this, I get paid to deal with this crap, they ignore their own company policies, half of them are miserable and take out everything on everyone else without looking in the mirror. They walk past our "closed" signs, move safety cones if they want that parking spot, take a crap in toilets where bathrooms are closed if we have water off to fix a toilet, they landed a buckoo bucks job and are just better then everybody. But it's OUR fault. I agree, it's on someone else's dime, so they say screw em. I wonder if it could be cheap to add or change ducts to localized hot spots without cooling areas that don't need it. Thanks for all your prompt input and help trying to help the insane.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    458

    Return Air Reset

    I've had a few buildings with temperature control problems. I had one for example that was set at 55 degree supply air with no reheat to most common areas. So the building would of course get cold. So I changed the control strategy to control from return air setpoint. If the setpoints 72 degrees and the return air is 69 degrees then the discharge air temperature is raised.
    Law Of The Thermostat: He who has the thermostat wins!!!!!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Morgan Hill Ca.
    Posts
    1,219
    IMHO, you are looking at this problem from a political angle, even though you have a major mechanical design issue.....

    I bet if you were to actually check, when you are having all these "cold" complaints that the humidity is getting stupid low, which will make you feel a hell of a lot colder than you actually are.

    The solution might be to reset the living hell out of the supply air temp to keep the supply air above the dew point, if it's DX you may have to use hot gas, water is easier....

    You can also set up the baseboard heat with SCR control allowing them to modulate like a water coil would, this wont totally solve the problem, but should make things better and also save a little coin....

    There are better answers than just telling the manager that his/her employees are a bunch of whiny Pu55y's...

    GT
    If a day goes by and you have learned nothing, I hope you got a lot of sleep.

  13. #13

    Humidity

    Yeah the humidity has been noticed, everything shocks you. I have suggested it and am waiting to talk with someone who knows the air system better to see if that can be increased. And yes, it is VERY political

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