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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    2,633
    Originally posted by BaldLoonie
    In many areas of the country, 13 SEER is an economic burden with no economic payback. It would be like banning all but 93% gas furnaces. Would it make sense for dash & Airman to be selling 93% furnaces in their steamy climates? Not any more than forcing people in cool, short summers to spend hundreds to get a 13 SEER.
    Yep.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Sarasota. Fl
    Posts
    1,254
    Originally posted by BaldLoonie
    Banning standard $150 TVs to force customers to buy a high res stereo monitor so they have a "better" product?
    I think they have already started.

    "Don't feel like dealing with HDTV yet? You may not have a choice. The Federal Communications Commission says it is phasing out analog TV transmission in 2006. At that time, you won't be able to use your old set without a digital-to-analog converter".-Popular Mechanics


  3. #16
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    2,729
    Originally posted by mark beiser
    Originally posted by rsmith46
    13 SEER is about the limit for R-22
    Trane goes up to 19.5 SEER with R-22.
    I stand corrected, I'm not a trane dealer. I know 14 or 15 with variable speed and TXV with R-22 on high end equipment. But thats a very small market share of equipment sold, seems manufactures would just go to 410 and phase out the 22 stuff earlier than mandated.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    534
    Where I work we're already pushing the 13 SEER units and customers so far seem to be very happy with them. We're a Trane dealer, and yes Trane has a 19.5 SEER unit using R22, the XL19i. But R22 is on the way out. 2010 will be the end of R22 systems. I installed an XL16i (16 SEER) 410a system with a variable speed air handler in a house last spring, went back to do her fall check up and she showed me her power bills since the inatsll. They actually decreased. I cant understand how someone can say that a higher SEER unit will cost more to operate.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    2,729
    The higher SEER R-12 units with fixed metering don't dehumidify well but they cool fast. Does 410 dehumidify as well as 10 SEER systems? I've heard its better but haven't had much experience yet myself.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Brooklyn, USA
    Posts
    6
    "a toyota prius is basically a corrola with batteries, but twice the cost"

    I just junked my Corolla when my new Prius arrived. The 1994 Corolla cost $13,700. The 2005 Prius cost $21,500. The Prius is a vastly superior vehicle, not counting the improved fuel efficiency. Even if it ultimately costs more to drive the Prius, it's still a much better car.

    In the long run, with a little global warming, there will be fewer places with short summers, and those 13 SEER units will seem like a better idea than they do now. But I agree that it would be nice if the government did not ram this down our throats.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    central ca.
    Posts
    11
    do you folks know why our founding fathers put the 2nd ammendment in the constitution? It wasnt to protect us from the British. Higher efficiencys are better for all of us if we are not hamstrung by bueocracy. Lets take a look at the energy providers.But we need to work together

  8. #21

    Post You guys have it easy....

    Our state legislaton has implemented duct testing be done with evry system installation or change out...

    And this must be done by an independent agency, go figure tht cost....

    Additionally effect this January our local municipality is requiring a matchign indoor coil change out, go figure...

    we already have been required to insulate our linesets with 3/4" wall with UV protection, before you know it we will be isnulating our linsets all the way to the stub on the compressors...
    AllTemp Heating & Cooling

  9. #22

    Re: You guys have it easy....

    Originally posted by AllTemp
    Our state legislaton has implemented duct testing be done with evry system installation or change out...

    And this must be done by an independent agency, go figure tht cost....

    For residential?? Which state are you in? Are you sure that's not just commercial and large residential (condos)?

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Dothan, Al
    Posts
    3,453
    I am a small-time contractor. Never installed anything above a 12 seer as I have never been convinced that anything higher would be worth the money to my homeowners.
    Have always tried to what what i thought was best for my customers. Alas, when the 'gods' above require it, then I must conform.

    The 13 seer standard ? Is it an absolute law now, or does it still have to be voted on or something.

    I know that the r-22 decline in 2010 is not law yet, but must still be passed as law

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Derby City
    Posts
    3,958

    Hmm

    born riding, better brush up on the legislation that has ALREADY BEEN PASSED. This is not just idle conversation, but is just as much "etched in granite" as the demise of the 70% afue furnaces.

    I am also AMAZED at your statement about not being able to justify the higher efficiencies to your customer. Are you being truthful with us here.... or is it just much easier to make the sale using lower efficiency, less expensive equipment? Sorry to hammer, but don't you believe your customers have a right to as efficient a system as possible?

    If we take the path of least resistance, are we really doing justice to our customer? It sounds like you are one that will be taken "screaming and kicking" to the next level. I am curious, exactly when DO you belive it is in your customer's best interest to invest in high or higher efficiency equipment?

    All temp: personally I would rather have control of ALL aspects of my job, from the electrical to the duct testing. If we have to think broader than what we do now, then that's what we have to do. Wouldn't you much rather be a one stop shop for your customer? We may have to ease out of our comfort zones, but that's just a result of our industry constantly evolving. If these areas are to become part and parcel within our industry, then we better learn to respond in a proactive fashion. It's gonna happen and is already happening in some markets, so we can grumble and moan all we want to, and get left in the dust in the process.

    We, my friends, better start thinking WAY outside the box, or we will be a fatality of the process rather than an active participant in it.

    I have used the illustration before. Going to a new $500+ custom home and having the homeowner ask me why in the world an 80% afue furnace was installed, when the 30 year old home he just left had a new high efficiency unit he had installed. He really felt short changed. I know, I know, our "friend" the builder did not want to provide a "complete custom package" and shortchanged his customer with what he requested from the hvac contractor.



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