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  1. #1

    Question

    Does anyone know if Trane will be coming out with a LonWorks control for their CSC units?

    If not how have you all interfaced a CSC into an LNS LonWorks network?

    The application I am looking at has an old Tracer 100 L panel with the CCPs and about 60 VAVs (Probable VAV-1s). What would be the most cost effective way to change this building over to a LNS LonWorks building?
    Notice I highlighted cost effective because this will be the deciding factor in this project.
    We are looking at a basic Summit upgrade versus a LNS LonWorks up fit.
    Any ideas would be helpful.
    Thanks
    scepter

  2. #2

    Smile Trane Commercial Self Contained

    The Trane CSC unit’s uses a LCI-I (KIT09145) LON interface document RT-SVN03A-EN. This is a dual LON profile supported LON interface for SCC and DAC profiles. It is in SCC mode with a constant speed fan and DAC when setup as VFD. The XIF file allows it to be used with standard LON systems, but your software must be full LonMaker/LNS compatible or a Tracer Summit/ BCU system to support it. For instance, I have seen that Honeywell front-end software does not support multiple SNVT/SCPT names that are identical in the same XIF file. This is standard LNS stuff when you support multiple profiles in the same interface, but which is not supported in all LON software outside of LonMaker.

    James

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Where it's dark & damp
    Posts
    609
    Dumb question but why do you want to go to a LON system. I realize the tracer is old and not a pretty windows program but generally is rock solid. The CSC may be of a vintage to old to be upgrade to with LCI card. Don't know as we don't have CSC in our area made by Trane. You can upgrade to a summit system and use all the old hardware if you just want to upgrade. If dead set on getting away from summit and Trane to go to a Lon system the VAVs controllers will have to be replaced and hope an LCI will work with your vintage CSC.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    Oftentimes older Trane equipment is incompatible to LON.

    Sometimes it's even incompatible to Summit without changing parts. (Voyager rooftops come to mind)

    Going LON has nothing to do about "pretty pictures".[*]Ability for independant support[*]Enhanced product selection[*]Competitive pricing[*]Minimize legacy upgrade issues (like this one)

    For starters anyway...

    Think drivers.

    EDIT- BTW on the DAC profile Trane has some variables they absolutely will not tell you what they are used for. Up to you to figure it out.

  5. #5
    Thank you jmcdaniel3 for that info. I will check into my ability to use it on this system. With my luck (and Trane’s compatibility issues) the equipment is probable too old to be upgraded.

    Willf650
    Why Lon,.. well IMO my customers need to have the best and part of the best is the ability to choose between both manufactures of parts (mechanical or controls) and between the service companies that they want to work with. Would you recommend a RTU that can ONLY use contactors and compressors from the manufacturing company?
    Would you buy a vehicle that only one company in your city could “possibly” service?
    I don’t think so. If I could upgrade this control system to an LNS LonWorks system I am giving that customer the ability to choose. I would then have to make absolutely sure that it operates exactly like he needs because he could easily let me go and have someone else versed in LonWorks take the work from me. This creates an environment of quality work that the end user will receive. Tell me what would happen if that vehicle you bought did not run and the one service center was not motivated to help you quickly because their attitude is “well we are the only factory trained people in the city so they need us”. That is wrong we need our customer more than they need us. We at least want them to feel that way, don’t we?

    Thanks ALL.

    scepter

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    449
    You can use the LonMaker tool to migrate an existing non-LNS system over to LNS. Using the network recovery feature, LonMaker can learn the network and create an LNS database from what it discovers in each device. After resynchronizing the network drawing to the database, LonMaker will create a network drawing complete with the devices, function blocks, and network variable connections. The process will recover programmatic names from the devices and depending on the number of devices, LonMaker may put them all in one subsystem drawing. So, you'll have to do some reorganization and name changing. But, it's easier than starting from scratch. Plus, in order to do recovery - the existing devices need to have a domain ID defined which you can recover by pushing a service pin. There's some cool videos that illustrate the process of recovering a self-installed network at http://www.echelon.com/products/inte...o/video100.htm
    Cheers,
    lb
    A hundred million nodes - it's a LON story.

  7. #7
    Don't blame you for wanting to go LON.Just some thoughts to be aware of - The CSCs will most likely have to upgraded to the Intellipak controller before you can install the Trane LCI-I card. Also you said you may have VAV1's which use a Trane non-isolated comm3 - The new BCU BMTX doesn't have that comm available. You may be able to get a BMTW that can use a non-isolated comm3 card if you beg someone at Trane and order quickly (they're first come first serve while they last).If the VAVs are II/III/IV you can use the new BCU. But you would be still be married to Trane controls. Depending on which CSC you have and you may be able to install a LON controller on each unit and just get away from the Trane stuff altogether. Wonder if anyones ever done that. Good Luck

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    You will still be tied to the Trane "mystery" variables of which they will not disclose to you.

    If I were a specifying engineer I'm make sure that any vendor would have to declare all variables and their use.

    By the time you get all the pricing you will probably just say forget it and retrofit.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,248
    Most of Trane's mystery variables are used to auto bind things in the BCU.
    Having said that, in my opinion it won't long where BCU will be chopped into pieces. The overhead of carrying things like comm3,comm4, comm5, and peak components will sooner or later tear it apart. Not to mention, Trane's peak is an adaptation of IEC's peak. And Rover, wow...


    Things may look half pretty upfront, but down below things are brewing. But hey no problem,let's just throw more money at it.

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