Question for home owners

[fixit50]

Here is a question for home owners , We as business owners and techs would like to know what you look for in an hvac company, what do you expect, for instance, fast service, lower prices, clean and honest techs, name brand, When you call where do you find them? yellow pages? newspaper adds, flyers? Your input on this can help us to serve you better.
Thank you.

[pstu]

Believe it or not, SKILLS is the thing I find in greatest shortage. And plain old craftsmanship. It would be great in my eyes to hear more pitches for blower door testing, duct sealing, more willingness to consider the "V" part of HVAC. I think there is a potential for getting "up-market" by offering tests, measurements and reports which meaningfully tell the HO what's going on. Being able to make a smooth referral when it's something you don't consider exactly up your alley (e.g. I see eyes glaze over when I try to talk about humidity issues), would be a plus.

Humble things like doing ESP measurement, after explaining to the HO what it means, I think would help sell many ductwork improvements. Since 3M filters are supposed to be the HVAC guy's nemesis, would it be too much to procure and deliver some of the *right* kind as part of a year-round service contract? After all most HO's just want to not think about HVAC issues.

I think phoning the HO a couple extra times per year, fishing for feedback and problems you can help with, might pay off.

Hope you can work some of these into a business plan.

Best of luck -- P.Student

[fat eddy]

As a homeowner,

What I look for in an HVAC contractor is trust if you can't trust them to be fair, there isn't anything else that will make me consider him for my business and no matter what other replies you get, trust and relationships are what grow a business.

[zoom38]

What I look for in an HVAC contractor is by far HONESTY and trust. Before I do anything including searching for an HVAC contractor I do research to familiarize myself with it so I have an idea what to look for and what questions to ask. I am a knowlegable home owner who may ask a question that you can't answer off of the top or your head, so tell me that you will look into it and not give me a half-assed answer that may or may not cover the question just to make it look like you are infallible. We all come up against something new every now and then in our professions that we might not know. In your case that is what this site is about. I had four HVAC contractors come in and two never called me back. I believe I scared them off when I began talking about heat gain calcs and to be honest I don't think they knew what I was talking about. They have this rule of thumb formula to go by and quite frankly I don't buy into it. My home is different from my neighbors (windows, insulation, siding etc) so don't tell me I need the same equipment. The third HVAC contractor I had come in seemed somewhat knowlegable but his price was out of this world. The fourth contractor seemed quite knowlegable but was too much of a pushy salesman. Needless to say I havn't found an honest contractor that I feel I can trust yet. This is why so many of us home owners become diy'ers, this just happens to be a job i'm not interested in tackling.

The following is what I look for in order of preference:
1)Honesty & trust
2)Quality workmanship(guarantee your labor)
3)Knowlege
4)Experience
5)Price
Yes price is last, unless you come in with a ridiculously high estimate of 25% or more over the next guy. I will pay a little more for good quality workmanship but there is a limit.

[Roncool]

Zoom 38 there is the problem to what you are saying. I would like to know how much each of the items on your list is worth paying for, and what price is out of this world. The truth is of course people are looking for most of the things on your list.

The truth is they are not willing to pay for them. It sounds to me you are not eather. When I bid on jobs, people seem to be concernd about two things how much and how long. If I do great work and I am the high bidder, I will not get the job, as a matter of fact I will not get 80% of what I bid on. Thats is probully why that guy has what you call out of this world pricing. The key to me is as a sales person is to make you feel comptable with me, to assure you that we will do the best job we can, and two convince you heat load or not, I know enought to complete your job on time.

I don't do heat calcalations and we did at least 200k of installs last year. we had one problem thats it one. A track of homes (80) did the heat loads they are now pulling all the units out as there not correct for our area. Don't judge a contractor that knows your area by one thing. Heat loads are a tool but don't judge you bids just on that.

[docholiday]

RON!!!
Maybe its one mistake, help me out here, but 80 units is an awful lot considering Track homes and probably 4 or 5 load calculations would have prevented that.

At $2000 a peice times 80 thats $160,000...Or 80% of your work.

Did I misunderstand? Were you sugesting that 20% of your business was a good enough target?

Maybe its early and I missed something.

As for bidding jobs, its part of the game. I would suggest bidding on the job with the same size equipment as the others with a clear understanting that if you get the job a proper load calculation will be performed and if the equipment needs to be adjusted so will the price up or down. Maybe even prepare quotes for alternate sizes and use the one that fits. Explain to the customer that you cannot determine which one until a load calculation is performed and that you are not interested in guessing on a 15 year investment in their comfort. Explain that it must be done and you also want to protect yourself from providing such reports to your competitor. To me that's honest and shows integrity and qulaity. Prepare quotes with Good, Better, Best set-ups so they can see some justification for various pricees. Share photo's and testimonials and have alist of references along. Offer fiancing options. Odds are you will be at a large advantage. And if you get the job... Do it right and you will get calls from his/her friends and family, rest assured.

[Edited by docholiday on 02-14-2005 at 08:35 AM]

[johnsp]

I would think quality of work is #1. This can only be verified by references and word of mouth. Of course thanks to the internet, we also now can find HVAC pro's that have an interest in peoples problems. I find the ones that come on sites like this and bad mouth others for taking part in discussions are probably not that knowledgable and fear customers knowing or understanding anything about the trade. A true pro doesn't fear a DIY'er, but should know his years of experience and knowledge will impress a customer by explaining his design implementation which justifies his costs.

[kampeh]

I'm waiting for an in home estimate today.
I got one from Home Depot and I need to compare.
I need some assurance that I can make this decision well.

The cost is 8,500 for Forced Air Furnace and Trane 12 SEER 3.5 ton. 10 year complete Warrenty. I guess I could find cheaper, but I think I trust these guys.

[kampeh]

If you can point me to relevant posts, please do.

I need to replace my residential HVAC Magic Chef Furnace w/PVC pipe and Lennox AC Unit. I'm told the system I have is very rare and out dated, but was good in it's day.

[Roncool]

Docholliday I think you have made some very helfull tips. I do most of what you have stated just not all the time and I know I should prepare better. I just work in a area that is real compeditive. I guess I am a bit senative because I lost a job last week to a guy I saw loading up in his trunk of his car. and no I don't do tracks the contractor came to me asking if I would buy the stuff they are pulling I am not sure it was all 80 homes I know I bought 35 2 ton condensers (Goodman 12 seer).All these house had heat loads done. I don't want to take away from 9mmnow thred I am interested in what people are looking for.My experence with home owners is not the same as what I read from them on threds I think it is because if a hom owner takes the time to ask questions on the internet they are smart shoppers, and like to compare before buying. Thats not what I see on a daily bases. I am little hard headed sometimes I will start doing them, maybe Don will send me one for free. The troble is it will make me want a lap top

[kampeh]

It's not a comfortable position to be in to choose a new HVAC System. Price is certainly important, but you want to know that the contractor is efficient with your money.
I'm prepared to spend $4,000 on a Trane 3.5 ton tomorrow w/10 yr wrnty but now my husband called and says he is getting feedback from friends at work that this is way to high and they say a unit like this should be about $2,000. And our old unit still works, but I believe it will be best to replace it with the furnace anyway, although I'm not sure. I like the offer from Home Depot because I am comfortable that the quality and service and installation will be good, but it seems the price is high.

[Jax]

Is there a failure to communicate?
Contractors wants home owners to write a blank check, sit back, remain silent and stay out of the way. Home owner want contractor to be able to answer reasonable questions, do good work, and be competitive in price. Humm

The truth is, a home owner shopping for a new system wants the same thing we all do when we look to purchase a car, home or a new piece of equipment for our service truck. They want the contractor to be able to answer their questions intelligently and guide them through the maze of choices while letting them remain in charge of decisions.
But in this process they also will make a determination about trust, and from whom they will get the most for their hard-earned money.
And yes Price does matter in their decision.


In the business we see all levels of quality of workmanship from contractor and we see home owners trying to make a decision with conflicting information from bidders. For instance if you had Doc and Ron
both bidding, who are you to believe. Yet I would bet you would get a quality system install from both.
We are often judged by mis-information, or differing views.
And we are often judged by things that have nothing to do with Heat and air.


Jax

[ps]

You will not get my job without a copy of your heat load calculation - no matter how experienced you may be. I will compare to my own calculation - to see how much attention is paid to understanding my application and subtle details. To me, attention to detail reflects experience and integrity (honesty & trust). I want my installer to provide annual servicing also - so I look for traits that will benefit me in that area as well. Home owners are not just investing in an expensive system that will heat/cool their home - they are investing in you to provide a system that works for the home and its occupants, whether they realize it or not. In fact, the HO who does NOT realize this will be the first one to callback or complain. The educated HO (by you or self-learned) is your best customer and will recommend you to others. My 2 cents.

[kampeh]

I know zilch about heat load calculation.
I assume that the new system is comparable to my old system. I don't like to be treated like I don't know what you are talking about...but I don't know what you are talking about. I agree that an educated homeowner is a better customer. But how much is a homeowner going to know about all this? Not much. So I think it comes to price, competition, and trust.

[ps]

Kampeh - my reply was more for 9mmnow, sorry.

I am currently looking to replace my heating system (HW boiler - not HVAC), but the question for HOs applies to my situation, too.

While I am an educated HO (engineer) - I would bet that time spent with the less-informed HO explaining the proposed system, its specific application to the HOs needs, how you will take care of the HO (service, etc) - will go a long way in winning the bid. Informing up front about how much the system costs over its lifetime (what an eye opener!) and the importance of initial equipment and installation practices influence this will show the HO that you are treating their system as if it were your own, and are not looking to just plug it in and run with the $. This helps develop trust and decreases their concerns with possible higher initial costs. I'll bet that a little hand holding will result in more sales and happier customers - and happy customers will be your greatest sales tool.

[kampeh]

PS, no apology needed, I was not directing my comment so specifically to yours. I agree with your comment about what (I) want in the contractor, and actually, I was impressed with the guy who came two days ago...he provided all that. But I think I need to compare anyway, it seems foolish to put out that much money without comparing 3 estimates, so I have two others coming today. But I feel bad making them go through this "free" high pressure estimate thing.
I respect contractors and think they should be able to have integrity and make decent money.
Good luck on your WH, those are not so expensive, right?

[ps]

You should absolutely get 3 or more estimates - and that is where the more info the HO has the better. You wouldn't buy a car without shopping around, and I am sure you use any info you can to negotiate the best deal.

I haven't put my job out to bid, but I estimate my job will be $6000 - $9000, depending on what type of boiler. So much for not so expensive - although a quality boiler will probably outlive me!

[kampeh]

In response to the thread about about to find....My husband went through the yellow pages when the Furnace quit Friday night with freezing temperatures outside. He found one guy who came out, but left lots of messages with other places. The guy who came could not fix it...we were not impressed. We paid him $xxx for an hour to change our thermostat (and then put our better one better one back again) and diagnose that the fan in the heater was bad and th wires were old/bad. He barely spoke any English.
I am a Home Depot fan and I was there getting Space heaters when the guy was messing up my thermostat for nothing. Home Depot was great about sending a guy for an estimate Sat morning. Then we had all the call backs from the messages my husband left and I agreed to an estimate this afternoon from a company I know nothing about. Then the small company that has serviced our system in the past and my husband is very happy with (couldn't reach them until today) said they would provide an estimate too and on top of that, they said they would get our system working right away so we would not be without heat in the interim.

[kampeh]

WOW!
I had no idea water boilers could cost so much. Sorry. You want to make a good decision then.
Thanks for the reassurance on the etimates.

[bentruler]

I had to think about this a bit.

Its easy to say price isn't a factor, but that would be a line of BS. Its also easy to say value and mean the intersection of enough quality and low enough price, but hard to define what that is.

So what I'd look for:
1) Correct installation.
2) Value.

Does that mean I want the lowest price? No. It means I want the lowest price that gets the work done right. I think every person here would want that if they were honest about it.

It seems to me that the lions share of cost comes from taking the time to put the large number of finishing touches on the work that seperates the quality jobs from the rest. I'd spell out those touches in the contract and explain why they are important. Picture differences for cosmetic things (concentric vent caps) would help.

Some ideas of things I've seen that show what I mean:
Spray paint inside of large return grills.
Hard pipe trunks and supply runs
Insulate boots.
Mastic everything.

You get the idea.

When it comes to service, this seems simple, but show the customer any parts you had to replace. If you can offer it to them. I'm always worried in the back of my mind "Did they even replace anything?" (Not just HVAC...)

Be willing to answer questions. Don't try to answer those you can't. Take it as a action item and get back to the customer if you don't know. At least shows you aren't out to BS them.

Don't as me for my name and address while sitting in my dining room.

Don't call my kid "the seed corn." Creepy.

Do correct bad information, but don't do it in a way that attacks another contractor.

Oh yeah, if you have sepeate sales and install crews, make sure the sales guy calls to check during and after the job. He's the guy (gal) that the customer has the trust bond with and is more likely to get told about something the customer doesn't like than the crew is.