Question for home owners

[ps]

This thread demonstrates the problems that prompted 9mmnow's OP - he wanted HOs opinions so that he could better his business. HOs and contractors both have provided good suggestions, AND revealed what are some of the biggest problems for both HOs and contractors. As a HO - this is what I have learned here and I think it speaks to the OP (contractor).

HOs
1)The fear of being ripped off (actual or in their opinion) or dissatisfied with part or all of the job - hack/mismatched installations AND/OR lack of understanding by HOs are usually the cause. Solution - Not all HOs are going to self-educate so ultimately the contractor has to take the lead. This will benefit HO,contractor, and industry in general. Maintaining integrity and professionalism helps everyone (no assumptions).

Contractors
Be professional - don't assume ANYTHING. Experience is very important but EVERY house is different, treat my system as if it were your own. If you are not going to take the time to do a proper load calc, ask questions, and educate me so that I can be a better customer and make an informed decision - then don't waste your time or mine. Choose your battles - if you have a customer that is only interested in price and doesn't care to be informed, give them an honest price and walk away if they only want to low ball you. You will never change all the HOs - but if you are a quality contractor, you already know the value of an informed and happy customer - and ultimately the industry is responsible for the systems and level of satisfaction of your customers.

P.S. - Professionalism is demonstrated everywhere, including appearance of personnel, vehicles, respect for property (HO and business). Lack of it just gives HO a reason to diminish trust in you and question everything you say or do thereafter (justified or not). This hurts your business and the industry in general.

[BobM]

First thing I want to know about is competancy -- I've had extremely bad luck in that department. Maybe 1 out of 5 serviceman from 2 separate companies seemed to actually know what he REALLY was doing.
Price would be second -- it's hard to put a price on good service.
Honesty & integrity would be next ...

[pstu]

Fat Eddy said...

>>Do you really look at trucks and determine who you will call to service your equipment ? I find that amazing..

I am surprised you think it makes no difference (if indeed I am reading your meaning correctly). Someone can *lose* my consideration based on looking like they are barely scraping by, but that won't *win* my business unless it's a tie-breaker. Does a rational homeowner want to deal with someone who looks "here today, gone tomorrow"? You may have mis-read what I was trying to communicate.


>>The tradition is that the most prestigous companies out there have no lettering
>>on their trucks and it is for a couple of very very good reasons.

Here is where I am amazed. Tradition? A couple of very good reasons? Please do tell why a HVAC business would want to conceal its identity at any time.

Regards -- P.Student

[dash]

Originally posted by fat eddy
Do you really look at trucks and determine who you will call to service your equipment ? I find that amazing, The tradition is that the most prestigous companies out there have no lettering on their trucks and it is for a couple of very very good reasons.

Just the opposite in our area.Why would a contractor not want the truck to have his name on it??

[Gunnery Sergeant Hartman]

Originally posted by fat eddy
Do you really look at trucks and determine who you will call to service your equipment ? I find that amazing, The tradition is that the most prestigous companies out there have no lettering on their trucks and it is for a couple of very very good reasons.

This makes no sense unless you don't want free advertising everywhere you drive.

[dash]

Just wanted to say,I think the idea of this thread,as I see it,for the Pros to learn what customers really want is teriffic!!

Need a few more homeowners to join in!

[dallasbill]

Originally posted by fat eddy
Do you really look at trucks and determine who you will call to service your equipment ? I find that amazing, The tradition is that the most prestigous companies out there have no lettering on their trucks and it is for a couple of very very good reasons.

Hey... seriously now... you're in Dallas, right? Didn't I buy a Nutty Buddy and a Fudgsicle from you last Sunday afternoon?

In Dallas, reputable HVAC companies always have company-labeled vehicles.

[fat eddy]

I was in Dallas but it was not last Sunday, Why would you need lettering on your truck. Most communities around here ban lettered trucks in drives,garages, street parked. If I had lettering on my truck I would have to move.

[dallasbill]

That's why I, as a homeowner, would never hire such an HVAC company.

- I don't know where your office is.
- I wonder why your truck looks like any other van on the road.
- When you tell me why you do this, I now understand where your office is.
- I extrapolate from that you are probably solo, or only work w/ 1099 subs.
- You can disappear.

In keeping w/ the questions asked by the OP:
no amount of your convincing how good you are would make me hire you. If you are that good, you label your truck, park it elsewhere, and have a car in your driveway.

Sorry to say it that way, but I am the customer.

[fat eddy]

I didn't mean I work out of my home I work for a vary large contractor, I 'm saying that the town I live in has ordinances about the residents having commercial vehicles in their yards, street,and garages. They are more willing to look the other way if there is no lettering or ladder racks on them.

[duct dr]

Hey eddy, are'nt you glad you don't live in TX ?

[fat eddy]

Are they all that tough there ?

[pstu]

Fat Eddy, OK you have described some decent reasons why you have a conflict with parking trucks with lettering in your neighborhood. I sympathize with your situation. However the fact remains that many homeowners see an unmarked truck as a telltale that the HVAC guy is not too solidly in the business. Maybe it *is* a Texas type of thing, we have more than enough hacks out here and we might see a crummy truck as evidence of a hack at work.

I think one thing a whole lotta HO's want deep down in their hearts is -- "HACK REPELLENT". If we could be sure of not getting a hack, many more of us would be open to paying the price of a good job. Some of us would consider our job half done if only we could find a sure way to avoid the bottom third of the industry. We are sick of paying for work and not getting it done, having mud tracked onto our carpets, having items stolen from within our houses when we turn our backs... all of these things have been in my experience.

You always have my sympathies too because you have a difficult job under uncomfortable working conditions, and IMO not enough HO's are willing to pay you what a good HVAC tech is worth.

Best wishes -- P.Student

[Edited by perpetual_student on 02-18-2005 at 09:26 AM]

[dash]

Originally posted by fat eddy
Do you really look at trucks and determine who you will call to service your equipment ? I find that amazing, The tradition is that the most prestigous companies out there have no lettering on their trucks and it is for a couple of very very good reasons.

Please explain the "prestigous" connection to unmarked trucks.


What about magnetic signage?

Have similar problem in some areas here,but okay if parked in the garage of the tech's home,amazing they can regulate what's parked inside your garage.

[ps]

Here in MA it is local (town) government or sub-division rules that can prohibit "work trucks" from being parked overnight at residences. Can you believe some areas even prohibit a HO from leaving their garage door open! My guess is this is going on all over the country - especially in the new "McMansion" subdivisions that have 3000+ sq.ft. homes with 2 adults and 1 kid living in them. How ironic that these huge energy hogs exist but you don't allow the HVAC techs to live in them. Sorry for the hijack - but this really burns me.

So fateddy has a reason - but most HOs still like to see a nice, shiny van and neatly dressed tech when the heat is on the fritz! It does matter.

[Advanced Response]

Fat eddy,,, You stated in another thread that you don't install equipment that you sub it out.. Is this why truck are not labeled because you don't have your own installation work force???
I am having a hard time understanding what you do in hvac...
Are you a engineering company or a consulting company?
You stated that you don't personally repair equipment within the first yr under warranty,, you stated that the Manufacturer is who repairs it or is it you require your subcontractor to make repairs the first yr.. I have never heard of such a thing... I make it very clear to my prospective customer that my company will be installing and servicing their equipment and my company will stand behind its install and service.. There has been very limited need for a manufacturer rep to need to get involved..

I think most customers want to only have one company and one manufacturer that is responsible for their installation and satisfaction...

I am not trying to get into a fight with you or trying to undermine your contributions to this field but I just don't understand some of your statements.. Your way of conducting business might be very successfull for you and your customers..

Just my opinion..
J

[kampeh]

What vehicles are used and how they are painted is something I would think of as a not very important factor, and certainly not the only factor, in considering a contractor. Of all the things in this thread, I would consider that probably the least important. As long as the vehicle(s) looks capable of supporting the work and service I want professionally (as in not a rusty flatbed)it would be fine with me.

In any decison, there are going to be pros and cons that should be weighed, you are not going to find "the perfect" contractor unless maybe you spend an inordinate amout of time and go through 6 or more estimates (I DON'T reccomend it). If no truck lettering is a deal breaker for you, I'd say that's rather a shame.

[41gasman]

I can sure understand wanting
to see a clean and neat appearing
tech.And there there truck.
Perception is not everything
but it is ALOT.I have to do
battle with this every day.
When I get done with installs
I'm usually pretty darn dirty.
Gas to gas change out are not
that bad.But when your doing
a new system or fixing old
duct work in crawl spaces
a guy can get pretty filthy!
Problem is then I need to go out
to do a bid or repair,service
call or what ever.Now I carry
change of clothes,pit stick
and such.And yes I take my
shoes off.This can be a pain
in the butt though.Take them off
when you go in.Go get them when
it's out to the garage time.
Take them back off to go back
in.Back on to go to the truck.
Get ladder,tarps to keep floor
clean.Cover alls so after I
get out of crawl and or attic
because I have to get a solid
looksy at existing duct work.
I can still be clean enought
to be in the house let alone
sit down to talk about what needs
to be done.It does play into
the perception thing and it
is important.But really it
is just respect for somebody's
home.And that IS very inportant!
Dallisbill, I understand and
really appreciate your honesty
about what you look for.But
I got to say I would have not
guess that having my company
name and logo on the sides of
of my truck to say "pemanency"
or "stability"or"reliable"
to the customer in their minds
eye.The biggest reason I haven't
is the four to five grand to
have it done.Sixteen foot cube
van is a lot of suface area to
cover with a sticker or paint.
And I always thought magnetic
stickers on the doors said
"here today gone tomorrow"
Alot louder than no stickers at
all.But that is just my thinking
Not the customers.And its their's
that counts.I have always related
how I come across to customers
LIke dating.NOBODY has ever looked
across the dance floor and thought
"my what a beautiful heart" or
"what a careing person" he or
she must be.WE all thinking
about.... well you get the
picture.Its after we meat them
that we start thinking "who
are they".We all have to get pasted
that first step.

I hope we can get somemore home
owners in here.To here what they
need to feel confident in a
contractor.This can be a very
hard hurdle at times to get
over.Thanks
41Gasman

[retired btc]

Originally posted by 41gasman


I hope we can get somemore home
owners in here.To here what they
need to feel confident in a
contractor.This can be a very
hard hurdle at times to get
over.Thanks
41Gasman

Direct quote from one of the Professional Members of this Forum.

Suggestion: Learn the difference between a good contractor and a bad one. Learn enough and you'll realize how incredibly poor most of the workmanship is out there. After that you won't care one wit about the brand. Finding a good craftsman will be your top priority. But if not... you were warned.

Of course this member is not talking about anyone's workmanship that is posting on here is he ?

Anyway back to the OP topic of what home owners are looking for in an HVAC Co.

In regards to fast service, Don't promise to be right over then come 4 hrs later while things do come up don't promise what you can't deliver.

Of course we all want lower prices that is why we shop around, does lower price's mean bad workmanship or bad equipment? Not in all case's,I know of a few contracters that bid high on purpose because they were too busy and really didn't want the job, Why waste the time bidding just explain to the homeowner that current commitments have you currently occupied.Most of the professionals I deal with do the best they can and don't try and jury rig things to make them work.

In my neck of the woods you most likely don't have to have that spit and polish look but at least don't be cussing, smoking or spitting and have your fly zipped up when you arrive and most ppl will be ok with you, they understand you may have just come from the duck blind, fishhouse or deer stand.

On another note most homeowners don't want to take the time to explore the different brands or options that is why they have a HVAC contractor come in, they hear things on the T.V. or get friends and families imputs and then make the call, Like a lot of ppl mentioned on here its not the equipment in so much as the installer but they still like the name brands, grand pa had a lennox, pa had a lennox so I am getting a lennox too of course there is other brands but you get the jest of it.

Up here we read the see the ads in the papers, yellow pages and such but a lot of its word of mouth as well, if someone we know had a good install and was content with it they give references if, not pity the fool that screwed the pooch his job just got harder.

One other note if someone is gong to build a half a million dollar home do you think they care who the installer is that is why they pay the big bucks for the general contrator who has is own criteria !

But hey its just my thoughts anyway !!

[retired btc]

Just a few more Imputs

Up here keep it simple, heat load calculations and blower test don't mean diddly to the customer that is is chasing chickens and rabbits off the chair for you to sit in. nor do high end media filters and humidifiers concern them all they want is heat to keep the critters warm.

You might be able to sell the high end equipment and dazzle the Big City Dwellers with Seer ratings and efficency ratings of the different units but unless the older customer ask don't push the issue about AC, their window shaker has been working just fine for yrs.If they want it they will ask for it.

But most of All Remember the Ten Commandment's of Service and you'll do just fine !