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  1. #14
    Do you know that Carrier and Bryant are the same equipment ?

    Why don't you get bids on diferent brands of equipment.
    There is no reason to stick with a Carrier or a Trane, in fact these units are probably very low on the list of quality but high on name recognition.

    Choose the contractor you trust and don't get hung-up on the difference of a few dollars geting a bad install won't be worth the difference.

    Don't look for someone to do a load calc, if someone came to my house and told me he needed to do a load-calc to choose the proper size of my equipment I would show him the door ( on the grounds that he probably doesn;t have enough experience) Contractors use load calcs as a tool to try to build the customers confidence, other than that they are worthless.When a customer asks me to a load calc I agree then tell him that there is a two labor charge for the service.

  2. #15
    First let me say to those who think that getting several bids is only looking to start a bidding war are short sighted, narrow minded and unable to see the woods for the trees being in the way. In no way shape or form would I ever trust anyone who I don't know with blind trust to not rip me off by overcharging. I shop around for everything. Everything. HVAC systems are no different. This is why I had 2 dealers from each brand come out, just to be sure I wasn't paying for the Queen Mary and getting the SS Row Boat. I'm not looking for the lowest bidder but price is a factor.

    As far as it went today, I had five show up. I have already eliminated three from the list and price was not a factor in eliminating them. In fact I haven't seen one price so far. I've already picked the one who I would like to use so lets hope his price is in the ball park.

    I will say that I'm smarter than the average bear and well read before this process started and when I ask a question, I'm full aware of what the correct response should be. It's part of the process.

  3. #16
    I was trying to pint ou tthat you were well on your way to getting four estimates on the exact same piece of equipment. ( Carrier- Bryant same equipment ) I was also trying to let you know that there are other brands out there that are at minimum just as good as these Lennox, Rheem, I was also letting you know that load calcs are tremendously over rated, here is an example you could spend three hours doing a perfect load calc on a home and get it down to the exact amount of heat gain heat loss right ? yes you can. Then what, they only make units in certain predetermined sizes anyway don't they, so if your inbetween which you will be, then which one do you buy. Exactly, the one the contractor recommends which is the same one he would of recommended without the load calc. I mean face it if your load calc comes out to 44,311.5 BTU's an hour do you go shopping for a 44,311.5 BTU an hour unit no you don't you look for a 3.5 ton unit, or even a 3 ton unit which would be the better choice because load calcs are done for extreme conditions which is a very very small perentage of the run time of your equipment.

    Hope this helps

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    46
    Also keep in mind that Manual J and especially Manual D only begins the process of designing a good system. I know plenty of contractors here in Colorado that try to go by the book (or software) only to have their service techs explaining to the customer why their systems will not heat their house to the required four degree variable. More expensive but critical "specialty fittings" designed to reduce turbulence and therefore increase available static pressure are a good bet for the thoughtful contractor. I was taught early on to regard airflow as both science and art and do not suffer from "Testosterone Poisioning" when it comes to always being right. Hiring the man who truly loves what he does first and looks to make a buck second can be a good wager.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Pacific Coast of Canada
    Posts
    4,008

    Cool I'm arrogant for not being party to a cluster&*%$

    Now I remember why I stopped posting here.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    15,951
    Originally posted by Paladin
    I was taught early on to regard airflow as both science and art and do not suffer from "Testosterone Poisioning" when it comes to always being right.

    I LOVE IT !!!!!!
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  7. #20
    Bentruler said: "Sometimes it's not price shopping, its anti-idiot shopping, and it can be hard." Exactly the point I was trying to make. Evidently Collin doesn't get it. Those of you in the business who say that one or two bids is enough haven't seen it from the customer's point of view. This is a major expenditure for me and I will not sign a contract until I'm satisfied the contractor is competent, and that has nothing to do with a bidding war. I did the same thing when I refinanced my mortgage---I called brokers until I found someone who could explain things clearly and who knew what he was talking about. He did an excellent job. Hopefully I'll find an hvac contractor who will also do an excellent job. But anyone who is offended at the idea of my interviewing several people obviously is not the contractor I'm looking for. Maybe those of you who feel that way should tell customers that up front so we won't waste each other's time.

  8. #21
    Thank you Susan, I could have not said it better.


  9. #22
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    chesterfield, michigan
    Posts
    93
    I dont usually reply to any of the posts on this site, but this one kind of hit a soft spot.Generaly its good to get some estimates and see what the differing opions are, but there is a point to where you start to get too many opions and you start tapping into the butchers that do exist and then who do you believe? The reason this is a soft spot is because I actually was awarded a project, did the job, completed the job and because the homeowners just couldnt let well enough alone, had another contractor come in and inspect the work.All you contractors out there, it was a 900 sq.ft retro not much to it, well to make a long story short this job was a open space and we chose a central return system because of the configuration of the roof and the openness of the space and cost effeciency.The layout of the job was already discussed and approved and so we moved forward on this.The other contractor fed off the homeowners concerns and made me look like a hack. Now, what really makes me concerned is that my expertise as a hvac tech/installer is of high end homes(10-15 million dollar)and commercial work(church's, dealerships, malls, etc.).What they did here is that, they took a professional business and yes I did show them pictures of these homes, turned us into everyone else and we are not everyone else, we are a custom mechanical contractor.My point of this whole babble is that, if you wander too far you start to lose touch.Use a contractor that someone you know used who had a good experience with them and trust them and let them do their job! It sounds like this is a furnace replacement and I do understand that you want your money's worth, but 6 estimates, come on, why not 10 or 15, where do you stop? Too much information, everybody has there own take on something and it becomes confusing after so many contractors.Use somebody your parents used or your best friend used and look at their work and hire them and save yourself alot of time and concern.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    chesterfield, michigan
    Posts
    93

    Very smart fast eddy

    Originally posted by fat eddy
    I was trying to pint ou tthat you were well on your way to getting four estimates on the exact same piece of equipment. ( Carrier- Bryant same equipment ) I was also trying to let you know that there are other brands out there that are at minimum just as good as these Lennox, Rheem, I was also letting you know that load calcs are tremendously over rated, here is an example you could spend three hours doing a perfect load calc on a home and get it down to the exact amount of heat gain heat loss right ? yes you can. Then what, they only make units in certain predetermined sizes anyway don't they, so if your inbetween which you will be, then which one do you buy. Exactly, the one the contractor recommends which is the same one he would of recommended without the load calc. I mean face it if your load calc comes out to 44,311.5 BTU's an hour do you go shopping for a 44,311.5 BTU an hour unit no you don't you look for a 3.5 ton unit, or even a 3 ton unit which would be the better choice because load calcs are done for extreme conditions which is a very very small perentage of the run time of your equipment.

    Hope this helps

    That is the most intellegent thing I have read on this site in a long time and that is about the load calc, manufactures only make so many units with varying sizes and you have to make do.The only thing the load calc is doing in the ho mind is separating the pros from the cons. We all know that over experience you can look at a home and view the structure(windows,doors,wall size,insulaton factor,age of the home,etc.)because if you have done enough load calc's you can equate a home you did a calc for and the one you are a presently looking at.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Pacific Coast of Canada
    Posts
    4,008
    Originally posted by susanfromsandiego
    Bentruler said: "Sometimes it's not price shopping, its anti-idiot shopping, and it can be hard." Exactly the point I was trying to make. Evidently Collin doesn't get it. Those of you in the business who say that one or two bids is enough haven't seen it from the customer's point of view.
    Bull****.
    You don't think I have ever had to make purchases?
    I have NEVER gotten six bids on anything.
    But then again, I have a respect for other peoples time.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    15,951
    Ouch! that sure touched a sore spot! but you could have abbreviated the bad word to BS lets have some respect here it reflects on all of us believe it or not, some HO's stereo type us already. Is vulgarity in the rules of this site?
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    76
    Originally posted by Collin
    You don't think I have ever had to make purchases?
    I have NEVER gotten six bids on anything.
    But then again, I have a respect for other peoples time. [/B]
    I'm not sure it has anything to do with respect for other peoples time. Many of the bidders sure as anything didn't respect my time.

    I spent some time this morning trying to think of anything I've ever bought that has been non-trade related (Electric, HVAC, roofing, painting) where the actual labor was more important than the physical product. The only thing I could come up with is movers. And you can get insurance cheap to cover them.

    Now I'll assume you're a good installer and not some hack running as fast as you can from the bank. You most likely know who the other good trades are from your business interacting with them, and you know who the hacks are. You won't call the hack roofers of electricians.

    Have your wife call 3 HVAC companies and get estimates to replace your system. She needs to pick 3 at random from the phone book, no helping. See what kind of response you get. There are likely 100 listed near me, and the hack %%% seems high.

    I'd love to ask people @ work for numbers, but the response I got from nearly everyone was "I've got a furnace and changed the filter when I moved in. You should do that what, every 5 years or so?" The one guy who had a company's name was too far away.

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