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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    121

    Confused

    I think my installer is lost on this one, See the thread below on Dumb Carrier 58cvx question and/or my posts from the summer when my Infinity system was installed. I think at this point I am going to have to pay to get a 2nd opinion from somebody who REALLY understands ductwork. Can anybody give me a referral in the Southern CA area (Orange County). This has just gone out of control. I don't know what else I could have done as a HO to avoid this, but at this point I am not going to have someone continue to guess.

    thanks!


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    12,181
    With the duct issues you describe, I'd recommend a company that is trained and certified by the National Comfort Institute.

    http://www.nationalcomfortinstitute....bers/index.cfm

    The people at NCI won't be able to fix your problem, but they can identify companies in your area that have received their training.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    chicago suburbs
    Posts
    4,422
    how about posting some pics of everything.
    FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE!!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,462
    I agree with JrBenny.

    I would first call the Owner of the company you contracted with. Explain your concerns and what has happened so far. If he does not "immediately" agree to get involved, politely explain you are going to call in another company to correct the problems and you are going to expect him to pay for the changes (follow this up with a certified letter stating this). Do not do this as a threat, but explain it is your last resort. Also send copies to the Carrier Distributor. While this is apparently not an equipment problem, they can encourage the dealer to remedy this situation.

    If they designed and installed the duct system it is 100% on them to make it right and at NO additional cost to you (as long as you did not refust to let them do something that they proposed).
    If all else fails....Try reading the directions!

    Tell it like it is and let the chips fall where they may.

    Any views or opinions stated here are strictly my own.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    They should solve the problem at their expense,not yours,based on they designed and installed the duct system.That said,if they were going to,it would likely have been done already.

    NOT saying they are "bad" people,the majority of contractors are not well versed in duct design,and as much as I hate "rules of thumb"they seem to "get by" the majority of the time.

    From what I've seen around here,and on this site,they probably don't have the knowledge to redesign it ,and/or do it in the most cost effective way.

    Can you post pictures ,and/or describe the return duct system,filter, and grille(s)?Pictures help a lot.

    Better description of what they say needs to done would help also.

    Did they tell you what the supply and return statics are?

    May not be able to solve "over the net",but some have been solved that way on this site,after the installer said "walls and ceilings need to be ripped out to correct it".

    [Edited by dash on 01-13-2005 at 11:25 AM]

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    121
    Dash, I will take some photos tomorrow post them with details on what I was told. thanks

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    chicago suburbs
    Posts
    4,422
    take some meausurements of the ductwork too. trunklines,return drop, etc.
    FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE!!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    121
    Well here are the photos.

    http://groups.msn.com/M51/shoebox.msnw?Page=1

    In short the the main supply is a 14" run on the top of the plentum that goes from the ceiling in the garage to the attic, to a mixing box. Flex is run from the mixing box to each of the 4 upstairs room and 2 baths. two long runs go over the ceiling of the stair well to the living, dinning room. The 90 degree duct coming off the plentum is not flex, it's a 9" that you can see in the inside photo with the wine frig.

    I took the plug out of that duct and dropped ESP on the low heat from .35 to .27 @ 825 CFM, high heat when from .56 to .47 @ 1069. I have not had a 33 Circuit limit fault since I took this out yesterday. I am wondering if that was not allowing enough return air?


    I thought my 37 x 14 return was ok for the system, then I pulled the return grill off. No wonder the static pressure has been high!! there is a 1x6 board across the small open area I have! I first drilled 9 1" holes in the board it reduced SP from 0.37 to 0.31, @870 CFM I am going to cut that thing out this afternoon. I can't believe the house was build this way. It appears this is a board used when the house was being framed and they just never tool it out!

    This is the most recent problem, Big problem:
    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=67387

    These are my other threads on this same issue

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=54530

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=55541

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=55859

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=66134

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=67387

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    chicago suburbs
    Posts
    4,422
    yup.... probably the return. in a perfect world that would have been a framed out opening. i'm sure your flex "spider" in your attic isn't helping either. in that pic w/the wine rack, i'm not sure what was done there. that doesn't look right, you can remove the grille and paint that mess black and put the grille back. i'd replace that gas line flex and put a drip-leg in it. just some ideas. now.... why is you b-vent all crooked.
    FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE!!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    1.Are the 14" and 9" the only runs off the plenum,as it appears?

    2. Does the 9" go to just one grille?If so,was it "plugged",for noise or excess air flow?


    3.Is the home two stories?(Referencing the 14" to the attic,feeding 4 upstairs rooms and 2 baths)

    4. If two stories,what feeds the down stairs??

    5. What rooms are adjacent to the room the furnace is in?


    Cut out all unneeded wood in the return,run with the return grille removed to lower ESP.



    Have you posted these pictures before,or am I dreaming?



    A 14" & 9" trunk,are not large enough for 4 tons,if that's all there is.




    [Edited by dash on 01-16-2005 at 11:45 AM]

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    chicago suburbs
    Posts
    4,422
    that return opening looks familiar.
    FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE!!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    121
    Yes you guys saw these photos in the summer when I first started having the "change filter error" on the Infinity controller. I cut out the horizonal firebreaks and the 1x6" piece with the holes in it. That help drop ESP.


    Dash
    1.Are the 14" and 9" the only runs off the plenum,as it appears?

    Yes the 14" and the 9" are the the only two supply ducts off the plentum on top of the coil. The 14" terminates at a mixing box in the attic, the 14" run is about 12 feet long. Once in the attic it goes to 14" flex and for about 10 feet and the R6 6" flex go to the bedrooms.


    2. Does the 9" go to just one grille?If so,was it "plugged",for noise or excess air flow?

    Yes the 9" goes to one grill, look that the photo of the furnace in the garage, the duct coming off the left side is that 9", it you look at the photo of the inside of my house that grill above the wine frig is that same duct. I because it pushes so much air they and the air flow to the upstairs rooms is not great, they said to put this plug in. It helped alot with air flow to the upstairs but pushed ESP up about .10. It


    3.Is the home two stories?(Referencing the 14" to the attic,feeding 4 upstairs rooms and 2 baths)

    Yes 2 stories.

    4. If two stories,what feeds the down stairs??

    Just that 9" in the family room, Up in the attic they run three 6" flex lines to the other side of house in the attic and down the stairwell to the livingroom, dinning room, and kitchen. Bad design but this was what the original ductwork did.

    5. What rooms are adjacent to the room the furnace is in?

    The wall behind the furnace is the family room, to the left of the furnace is a bathroom downstairs, to the right of the furnace is an exterior wall.

    The runs on the flex are 6" to the bedrooms, I did not see a mixing box from the 14"? Not sure how they attached them but here are the duct photos from the attic:

    http://groups.msn.com/M51/shoebox.msnw?Page=Last

    Thanks!!!



    [Edited by titan7 on 01-16-2005 at 02:22 PM]

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    chicago suburbs
    Posts
    4,422
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by titan7

    4. If two stories,what feeds the down stairs??
    Just that 9" in the family room, Up in the attic they run three 6" flex lines to the other side of house in the attic and down the stairwell to the livingroom, dinning room, and kitchen. Bad design but this was what the original ductwork did.


    i think this is your problem. if i understand right, the 6" ducts run across the attic AND then down the stairwell. i'm sorry to say but you have a horrible duct system in your house. it is by far the cheapest to install and the worst for airflow. if all your ducts were smooth insulated metal you would have better airflow.
    FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE!!

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