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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16
    I had a Goodman 2 1/2 ton 13 SEER heat pump installed April 2004 by a well respected and licensed contractor. My indoor equipment was replaced with a 17 kw Mortex air handler and coil; the Washington State Dept. of Labor and Industries, responsible for manufactured homes/permits, would not allow me to install a Goodman air handler/coil because it has not been tested in mobile homes. The new thermostat is a non-programmable Carrier model (installed last month replacing a Totaline thermostat which was off by 5 degrees). All this new euqipment replaced 16 - 20 year old Coleman equipment (9 SEER heat pump). I expected to use the same or less electricity with the new energy efficient equipment.

    Here is my problem: My energy usage/utility bills increased immediately. Even when in cooling only mode during summer, I used 12% - 59% more electricity. During the past three winter months (relatively mild, temps mostly in the 40's, nights in the 30’s), I’ve used up to 67% more electricity with a lower temperature setting (66 degrees for 18 - 20 hours/day, up to 67 for 4 - 6 hours/day; actual temperature in the house 64.1 - 65.3). These percentages are based on my utility bills covering the last three years before the new equipment was installed and averaging every month for the three year period.

    The installer claims to have checked the equipment and pronouced it running; the utility company tested the meter and it is not malfunctioning; Goodman argued that their energy savings claims are based on tests involving all Goodman equipment.

    My questions:

    What can cause such an excessive increase in electricity usage even though I’ve lowered the temperature in my house (and I am cold and uncomfortable)?

    Would the fact that I have other manufacturer’s equipment installed indoors make the Goodman heat pump run less efficiently?

    I've made a diagram of the wiring on the new Carrier thermostat and compared it to the wiring diagrams of the Goodman and Carrier installation manuals; my wiring does not match any shown in either.

    Would really appreciate some ideas or suggestions. Thank you.


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Tell us how it's wired,somrthing is wrong somewhere,may not be the wiring.

    Notice any difference in the air flow or temperature coming out of the ducts,can you post picturs here??


    All models numbers would help.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16
    I tried to copy/insert the diagram (or attach it in .pdf or .jpg format), but could not get it to work; if someone can tell me how to do that, I will.

    In the meantime, here is the wiring in type:

    S2 -> black wire
    S1 -> orange
    O/W2 -> white


    R -> red
    Y/Y2 -> yellow
    G -> green
    C -> brown
    W/W1 -> blue

    Model numbers:

    Carrier thermostat: TSTATCCNHP01-B

    Goodman heatpump: CPLT 30-1A

    Mortex air handler/furnace: BMH-155-17

    Mortex coil: 96-842K-0P

    I had asked to have an outdoor thermostat installed; they now told me they installed an outdoor temperature sensor - is that the same thing?
    I believe the Goodman heat pump already comes with a temp. sensor and lists a thermostat as an optional accessory.

    The installer also left the original factory default setting on the thermostat to have the furnace come on when it's 45 or below; he later changed that to 35 degrees. He also did not adjust the anticipator / sensitivity setting which caused the equipment to cycle on with a loss of only 0.1 - 0.3 degrees; I've now changed that and at least the excessively frequent cycling is under control.

    I've not noticed any air flow or temp. differences except for the fact that I've turned down my temperature (because of the high utility bills) and it seems cold in the house - no wonder with an actual temp. of around 64 - 65. I have an accurate Oregon Scientific indoor/outdoor thermometer hanging right next to the thermostat.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    125
    What kw heat srip did you have before?The refrigerant charge may need to be rechecked. And if the 3.5 ton evaporator coil is correct for the 2.5 ton heat pump
    you still may have to lower the blower speed to 1000cfm
    area. Still think you had only 10 kw working on old air handler,make shure heat elements staging right ok.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16
    I don't know what the kw of the old heat strip was. It was Coleman and 20 years old.

    How do you know that I have a 3.5 ton evaporator coil? From the model number? A good point to bring up with the installer.

    The blower was adjusted from high (which made my house a wind tunnel) to medium, but I don't know the cfm on that setting. Another good point to bring up with the installer.

    Thank you.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Hell Hole Swamp
    Posts
    4,180
    A couple things, with that much increase in electric consumption I would guess you have electric heat on whenever the thermostat calls for heat. Have them make sure the electric heat does not come on until the thermostat calls for second stage/auxillary heat.

    Also that doesnt sound like a good coil/heat pump match to me, definately not in the ARI guide, you would have had a lifetime compressor warranty had they installed a matching Goodman indoor coil, otherwise it is 10 years.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Eufaula OK
    Posts
    4,175
    BTW,, The Goodman AH is approved for modular home use.
    As you now know, you do not have a matched system. You may never get the factory SEER or HSPF, but that does not mean it should not work well if set up correctly. I am assuming the a check of the voltage at the unit while it is running has been preformed. There are a lot of possible causes including poor install, bad compressor, and many more.

    You should get a qualified HVAC company, familiar with this type of setup, to evaluate your system. Be sure they know exactly what you want done, and are capable of doing it. You will need the installation instructions that came with you HP and AH.
    They need to determine if the correct piston size was used in the indoor coil, and if it is capable of working in heat pump mode by allowing free flow in reverse. The wiring should be checked to make sure heat strips are working at the proper time only. The charge, pressures/temperatures and system performance should be compared to factory recommended. Your install manual will have a guide on temperature rise for varying temperatures. Blower speed may need to be adjusted.
    Don’t expect a freebee, but this is the only way you are going to know if there is a problem, if so what it is and what it takes to fix it.
    Jax



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16
    You mentioned that the Goodman is approved for modular homes - I have a mobile (manufactured) home and the state told me I couldn't put a Goodman airhandler inside and that the only compatible indoor equipment would be a Mortex. Where did you get the information that Goodman indoor equipment is approved for mobile homes?

    How can I tell if I have a 3.5 ton evaporator coil?

    The installer is a qualified HVC company, but they usually deal with Carrier equipment and I am still under full labor warranty with them. I am trying to get some ideas before calling them back because they said they'd charge me because the system is running.

    Goodman told me I had lifetime compressor warranty (and they do know that I have non matching equipment indoors).

    Thank you.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    Your service guy should perform two tests.

    Test one... Airflow.
    By using the resistance heat only he should establish the airflow. (should be adjusted to 1000 cfm +/- 10%)

    Test 2... Capacity.
    By using the established airflow and the compressor only heat mode, he should be able to determine system capacity.

    WAIT!!! Did I understand it correctly that you were switching OFF the hp when the electric heat comes on? Then yes, this explains why your bill is high, the HP is always more efficient than electric heat and should be used at all times. If he has your system configured to turn off the outdoor unit when your aux heat is electric then he may be well respected for something other than technical expertise. Now I dont know the set up but if the heaters are installed before the coil then this would be why he is turning off the OD unit. If this is true then you got... well you got it, thats all.

    For the record, no manufacturer will promise any efficieny levels with mismatched equipment.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Eufaula OK
    Posts
    4,175
    I am not sure about your AH, But the numbers on your AH 42 might indicate a 42k btu which is 3 and ˝ ton. If the blower will go low enough it is fine. The Goodman info is available on their web site, and plainly stamped on each unit.
    Quote
    "The Goodman® ARUF Multi-Position Electric Heat Air Handler is approved for modular homes." Unquote

    http://www.goodmanmfg.com/consumer/s...edSite=Goodman


    Jax




  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16
    He did some sort of test sticking a wand into one of the heat registers and said there was enough heat coming out - is that what you mean?

    I don't know what you mean by the heatpump being OFF - it is running and I'm certainly not switching it off. With the current thermostat, I can't tell though if any aux. heat source is also running; all that shows is that "heat" is on. How would he have configured the system for the heat pump to turn off when the aux. heat is on? The thermostat is set for the aux. heat to come on when the outside temp is 35 or less, but I am using more electricity in the summer as well.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Hell Hole Swamp
    Posts
    4,180
    The Goodman lifetime compressor warranty is only when installed with a matched indoor coil, there is a form that comes with the outdoor unit that must be sent in to verify this, otherwise it falls back to 10 years

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16
    That's odd; I registered online for the lifetime warranty and I also spoke with a Goodman representative who is aware that I have non matching equipment and still agreed that I have a lifetime warranty.

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