Trane XL16i Install - In Progress

[kcrossley]

Today my HVAC contractor showed up to install our new Trane XL16i and matching VS air handler. At first the day seemed to be going pretty well. But as things progressed we ran into some difficulty.

As they were running the refrigerant lines through the drop ceiling, half of the ceiling gave way and fell to the floor damaging many tiles and grids. This stuff happens so I wasn't upset. Besides the owner said that he would have someone fix this. He offered to pickup half of the cost since the drop ceiling may not have been installed properly. Does this sound fair?

Late in the day the VisionPro thermostat kept shorting the fuse in the AH. My HVAC guy bypassed the thermostat and was able to run everything so it looks like a faulty thermostat. Unfortunately we're without any heat right now, aside from three space heaters that he's letting us use. Current indoor temperature is 65 degrees so they appear to be working. Upstair is much colder.

After my HVAC contractor left I checked out the work-in-progress and thought I would share it with all of you. There are only two major things troubling me. First, one of his employees burned the paint off of one of the XL16i's panels, which can be easily replaced-I hope.

The other thing that's really bothering me is that the Trane AH was larger than the return duct it's sitting on. Perhaps this is fine. It just looks a little funny to me. I'll let you decide. Please review the photos and post any comments, advice, or suggestions.

http://homepage.mac.com/kcrossley/PhotoAlbum27.html

Thanks,
Kelly

[mayguy]

I would ask them to clean up the foam outside. Have use the thumb putty stuff to seal the hole on the wall.

Is the wire wired up right on the t-stat and the air handler itself?

Why wasn't they able to get heat going for you tonight, could at least used a temp stat. .

[Swampfox]

A couple things

Yes, ask for a new panel, it shouldnt have been in place when they brazed the lines.

The High voltage wiring should be in conduit, not bare romex with romex connectors, that is rediculous for them to leave it that way outdoors.

I doubt the thermostat was bad, probably wired incorrectly.

I see no means of condensate overflow protection.

The large refrigerant line should be insulated all the way to the unit, that looks sloppy, hopefully they arent planning on leaving it like that.

[sarge]

I would ask them to put the thermostat wires inside the cabinet of the outdoor unit, not behind the panel that covers the refrigerant lines.

That burned panel is pretty much useless to me. Many times we do not installl that panel after we are done making the braze joints.

Did they use the old romex and romex connectors on your outdoor disconnect? I would want all outdoor wiring, including t-stat wires, in weather tight conduit, not romex.

[Swampfox]

$10 says they hooked B on the Trane AH to B on the Vision Pro, direct short when set to heat.

[jrbenny]

1.) Inadequate condensate trap. Ask them to install one per the installer's guide. There's even a picture to help them. You will find water on that Honeywell filter if the trap is left like that.

2.) Have them order a new corner panel and fire the monkey that melted the base pan and burned the panel. That panel is removable for a reason...sheesh!

3.) Corner panel above the burned one is not installed correctly. It will allow water to enter control area in that position.

4.) Hopefully, they will clean that mess around the penetration for the lineset and electrical. Looks like the stapuff marshmallow man took a crap there.

I'm sure the other board members will find a few things.

[kcrossley]

Originally posted by swampfox
$10 says they hooked B on the Trane AH to B on the Vision Pro, direct short when set to heat.

You're good swampfox. I believe that's what happened. Plus the VisionPro was preset for single stage heating and cooling. They didn't discover that until they powered it on. What should they do?

[kcrossley]

Originally posted by mayguy
I would ask them to clean up the foam outside. Have use the thumb putty stuff to seal the hole on the wall.

Is the wire wired up right on the t-stat and the air handler itself?

Why wasn't they able to get heat going for you tonight, could at least used a temp stat. .

1. Yes, I already removed some of the foam stuff after they left.

2. I'm going to request putty instead.

3. I don't know. They were able to bypasss the t-stat and get it working. They didn't have a temporary multi-stage t-stat.

Brrrrrrr. It's getting cold in here.

[Edited by kcrossley on 02-01-2005 at 09:19 PM]

[kcrossley]

Swampfox, in answer to your questions:

Yes, ask for a new panel, it shouldnt have been in place when they brazed the lines. I agree and I will.

The High voltage wiring should be in conduit, not bare romex with romex connectors, that is rediculous for them to leave it that way outdoors. The old one wasn't wired that way so they're probably just duplicating what was there. Should I purchase some myself and give it to them? What size?

I doubt the thermostat was bad, probably wired incorrectly. My wife agrees with you.

I see no means of condensate overflow protection. I don't know what that is.

The large refrigerant line should be insulated all the way to the unit, that looks sloppy, hopefully they arent planning on leaving it like that. I agree.

[kcrossley]

Originally posted by sarge
Did they use the old romex and romex connectors on your outdoor disconnect? I would want all outdoor wiring, including t-stat wires, in weather tight conduit, not romex.

Yes, old romex. Yes. swampfox noted that and I will request it.

[kcrossley]

Hi jrbenny,

Good to hear from a seasoned Trane guy. In response to your suggestions:

1. I'll have them check this, but this is similar to how the old Trane was drained.

2. Yes, I'll request a new panel. The monkey was the owner's son, so I don't think that's going to happen.

3. I know. I fixed it.

4. I agree. I hate it when the Sta-Puff Marshmallow Man does that.

Thanks,
Kelly

[Edited by kcrossley on 02-01-2005 at 09:16 PM]

[mark beiser]

In addition to the line voltage wiring needing conduit, the low voltage control wiring to the outdoor unit should be in conduit where it is exposed to outdoors. A lot of peopole don't do it, and many inspectors don't look for it, but it is in the 2000 UMC...

[kcrossley]

Originally posted by mark beiser
In addition to the line voltage wiring needing conduit, the low voltage control wiring to the outdoor unit should be in conduit where it is exposed to outdoors. A lot of peopole don't do it, and many inspectors don't look for it, but it is in the 2000 UMC...

Can the line voltage and low voltage control wiring be enclosed in the same conduit? What does UMC stand for? Does this code apply to all states? I'm in Maryland.

[Edited by kcrossley on 02-01-2005 at 09:24 PM]

[Shophound]

Plus the VisionPro was preset for single stage heating and cooling. They didn't discover that until they powered it on. What should they do?

The VisionPro can be programmed off the wall. The installer can set the stat onto a table, sit down, set the instruction booklet next to it, and program away. I just installed 22 of these stats in my building. I sat at my desk and programmed each one for the system it was to go on, then took it over and installed it. Got all but a few of them right the first time.

The contractor could have left you with single stage heat for the night. Slap a T87F round on the wall for the night and leave the customer warm. Return the next day with someone that understands more about control voltage wiring than reading colors and put in a properly configured VisionPro and you're golden.

I agree with the others on the points of concern raised. They should lose the Romex, insulate the suction line fully, and I'd want to see mastic on the supply plenum vs. the foil tape.

[kcrossley]

If you don't properly set the VisionPro for a multi-stage heat pump when you install it, will you fry the t-stat?

[centralflinstaller]

not to be a jerk but honestly i hope those aren't his best installers...looks a little sloppy. i usually try to keep my oppinoins to myself but in this case if you feel the need to speak up about something do..even if you don't have time to come on here and ask go with you're gut, everthing you've questioined is questionable to say the least..sloppy is how i would put it ...

[kcrossley]

I agree, but I think (hope) all of the problems can be corrected, which is why I'm asking for forum member's advice. I'm working on the To Do list now.

[Edited by kcrossley on 02-01-2005 at 09:33 PM]

[tinner73]

get that 220v in some seal-tite.

[Shophound]

If you don't properly set the VisionPro for a multi-stage heat pump when you install it, will you fry the t-stat?

Depends on what the guy was doing when he wired it. I gotta think it went like someone else was saying...the installer saw the "B" on the Trane control board and a "B" (actually "O/B") on the VisionPro subbase, and thought, "Uhh...dat mus'mean da B wire go hear!" Wrong. The "B" is actually common, sometimes marked "X" on a thermostat subbase.

To answer your other question, low voltage wiring can NOT be run in the same conduit as high voltage wiring.

[kcrossley]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by shophound

To answer your other question, low voltage wiring can NOT be run in the same conduit as high voltage wiring.

Is enclosing external wiring in conduit standard practice? Is it a code violation? Since I'm HVAC ignorant, will my HVAC contarctor be offended by this request? Can you post a link to the type of conduit you're referring to?

[Edited by kcrossley on 02-01-2005 at 09:39 PM]