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  1. #105
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    26
    There's no gaurantee that the higher bid would have used nitrogen or a micron gauge either.

    I'm curious to know what percentage of Contractors do braze with nitrogen and use a micron gauge. Anyone know?

    Most homeowners wouldn't know the difference.

    The majority of homeowners don't know what a Manual J or Manual D is either so how many Contractors actually figure out those?

    Also, if the existing system worked well, why pay extra to have a Manual J or Manual D done?

    Anyway, I do not agree with just blindly going with the higher bid. They may be just like everyone else just higher priced.

    Of course if the homeowner requests in advance that a Manual J and Manual D be performed along with the brazing with nitrogen flowing and vacuuming with a micron gauge be done, I'd bet the majority of Contractors might be afraid that the homeowner knows too much and raise their quotes significantly(to scare off the business) or not give a quote at all.

    They can always go to the next unsuspecting homeowner who won't know the difference...

    Now the next question is just how much of a negative affect does brazing without nitrogen do? I'd bet my 20 year old 3 ton Bryant A/C wasn't brazed with nitrogen, but who knows maybe it was?


  2. #106
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    2,633
    Originally posted by rcp
    There's no gaurantee that the higher bid would have used nitrogen or a micron gauge either.
    Exactly right. I use to work for the biggest residential HVAC company in our county. They were expensive. The boss knew what it took to run a successful business. He's a millionaire as a result. And "what it took" did not include airflow hoods, micron gauges, Manuel D or J, etc. What it took was good marketing, good business management skills and slick as snot salesmen. That's a cold, hard and sad fact utterly proven ten times over by virtue of who's big in the biz and who's not. Granted, it can be done the other way. But it's the exception.

    Excuse the late and pessimistic comments. I read the whole affair with interest. The only thing I took exception with was the notion that the more expensive guy would have likely been better. Based on my own experience with the big companies in these parts, the correlation between price and performance is not what it should be. As people have said, this install is average at best (meaning not so good in reality). Most large and expensive companies do exactly that, average. The surest way I know of to get an above average system is for the H.O. to get uber-educated before hand and find a company that isn't intimidated by that - along with all the other checks one would do. (And sure, that un-intimidated company will also likely be fairly expensive. )

  3. #107
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Williamsburg, VA
    Posts
    386
    Okay, tell me I'm crazy, but I'm half tempted to have another HVAC contractor come in and fix this install. I've been surfing the web looking at text book examples of good installs and I'm appalled at what I received. I should have listened to you guys. It really is about the installer.

    Do you think it's worth it or should I just leave well enough alone?


    [Edited by kcrossley on 02-08-2005 at 11:21 PM]

  4. #108
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    2,633
    Got that 10 years parts and labor warranty? Going to move out in less than ten years? If yes to both, then leave it alone IMO. To have another contractor fix it would be a lot of dough out of pocket. If you try to stick it to the installing contractor, I think you'd have a tough fight on your hands since he has been willing to address all issues except that one duct.

    [Edited by Irascible on 02-08-2005 at 11:25 PM]

  5. #109
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Zelienople, Pa
    Posts
    2,965
    Originally posted by kcrossley
    I should have listened to you guys. It really is about the installer.



    [Edited by kcrossley on 02-08-2005 at 11:21 PM]
    Did you think we preach that as a joke?
    The install is 100X more valuable than the equipment.
    How tall are you Private???!!!!

  6. #110
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Williamsburg, VA
    Posts
    386

    Smile

    [/B]Did you think we preach that as a joke?
    The install is 100X more valuable than the equipment. [/B]
    Well, now I know. And better yet, perhaps other homeowners can learn from my experience. Darn. I hate being made the example. Reminds me of high-school.

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