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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,327
    Plus the VisionPro was preset for single stage heating and cooling. They didn't discover that until they powered it on. What should they do?
    The VisionPro can be programmed off the wall. The installer can set the stat onto a table, sit down, set the instruction booklet next to it, and program away. I just installed 22 of these stats in my building. I sat at my desk and programmed each one for the system it was to go on, then took it over and installed it. Got all but a few of them right the first time.

    The contractor could have left you with single stage heat for the night. Slap a T87F round on the wall for the night and leave the customer warm. Return the next day with someone that understands more about control voltage wiring than reading colors and put in a properly configured VisionPro and you're golden.

    I agree with the others on the points of concern raised. They should lose the Romex, insulate the suction line fully, and I'd want to see mastic on the supply plenum vs. the foil tape.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Williamsburg, VA
    Posts
    386
    If you don't properly set the VisionPro for a multi-stage heat pump when you install it, will you fry the t-stat?

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    cocoa fl
    Posts
    143

    Hmm

    not to be a jerk but honestly i hope those aren't his best installers...looks a little sloppy. i usually try to keep my oppinoins to myself but in this case if you feel the need to speak up about something do..even if you don't have time to come on here and ask go with you're gut, everthing you've questioined is questionable to say the least..sloppy is how i would put it ...

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Williamsburg, VA
    Posts
    386
    I agree, but I think (hope) all of the problems can be corrected, which is why I'm asking for forum member's advice. I'm working on the To Do list now.

    [Edited by kcrossley on 02-01-2005 at 09:33 PM]

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    chicago suburbs
    Posts
    4,422
    get that 220v in some seal-tite.
    FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE!!

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,327
    If you don't properly set the VisionPro for a multi-stage heat pump when you install it, will you fry the t-stat?
    Depends on what the guy was doing when he wired it. I gotta think it went like someone else was saying...the installer saw the "B" on the Trane control board and a "B" (actually "O/B") on the VisionPro subbase, and thought, "Uhh...dat mus'mean da B wire go hear!" Wrong. The "B" is actually common, sometimes marked "X" on a thermostat subbase.

    To answer your other question, low voltage wiring can NOT be run in the same conduit as high voltage wiring.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Williamsburg, VA
    Posts
    386
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by shophound
    To answer your other question, low voltage wiring can NOT be run in the same conduit as high voltage wiring.
    Is enclosing external wiring in conduit standard practice? Is it a code violation? Since I'm HVAC ignorant, will my HVAC contarctor be offended by this request? Can you post a link to the type of conduit you're referring to?

    [Edited by kcrossley on 02-01-2005 at 09:39 PM]

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    SE Pennsylvania
    Posts
    230
    All in all I'd say it's a crappy job. First time I've ever seen a return air box smaller than the unit. And to top it off the silver tape looks like crap. I would of used duct sealant instead. All the things that these guys mentioned is right plus you should tell the guy who brazed the lines that he needs more training. I just love the copper line on your humidifier, looks like had some extra elbows they needed to use. Your t-stat wire is hanging down and looks like crap too... they could of put it up above the trunk line and made it come straight into the unit. Sorry to be so picky but if anyone who worked for me did a job like that I'd make them go back on their own time and make it look right.

    You shouldn't have to pay for any of the damaged ceiling, the contractor who damaged it should have to replace it at his cost. You didn't damage it.

    ttfn
    absolutehvac.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Hell Hole Swamp
    Posts
    4,180
    It should definately be in conduit...period, romex is for inside the walls out of the weather, outdoors in the elements is not up to code.

    As far as the condensate overflow protection, ask them to install a float switch, they will know what it is (hopefully) also make sure they put a better drain trap like jrbenny said, those prefabricated ones are inadequate for a variable speed AH.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,327
    Is enclosing external wiring in conduit standard practice? Is it a code violation? Since I'm HVAC ignorant, will my HVAC contarctor be offended by this request?
    Any time Romex is exposed and not encased within a wall is against code. It is not designed, with the exception of an attic or run within a protective chase, to be left exposed.

    If your contractor takes offense to your insisting upon a quality install, you got a problem. What's this contractor going to do if something goes wrong later on down the road with the system?
    I would not tell your contractor where you got your list of corrections of his work, but I would insist without wavering that everything you find disturbing about this installation be corrected before you settle on the bill.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Williamsburg, VA
    Posts
    386
    Originally posted by absolutehvac
    All in all I'd say it's a crappy job. First time I've ever seen a return air box smaller than the unit.
    Okay, this is a big issue for me. I'm sure that what they did is functionally sound, but I really don't like it from an aesthetics point-of-view. What's worse, is that I was home and let the guy talk me into doing it.

    Can a new matching return duct be installed without totally redoing everything that's already been done. In other words will they be able to place temporary supports under the AH, install the new return duct base, and lower the AH onto it, or will it have to be totally broken down?

    If I request that they make a new bottom duct the same size as the air handler would my request be considered reasonable or am I going to be perceived as a know-it-all customer? Does what they did violate in codes?

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Williamsburg, VA
    Posts
    386
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by shophound
    Any time Romex is exposed and not encased within a wall is against code. It is not designed, with the exception of an attic or run within a protective chase, to be left exposed.
    Can you post a link to the type of external conduit you're referring to?

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,327
    I thought of a few more things:

    Was nitrogen flowed through the system while the refrigerant lines were being brazed?

    Was the lineset evacuated before the refrigerant charge was let into the lines from the condenser?

    And this:



    Are they planning on leaving that wire nut hanging like that? Overall the low voltage wiring at the condenser is sloppy. I'd want to see stat wire ran all the way up inside the unit, and the unit's wiring neatly bundled together and tied off if there was no terminal board inside the unit.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

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