New Heat Pump to Replace Old

[rickintampa]

Originally posted by dash
ARS is not factory authorized and is usually more than most independent contractors.

Try Caldeco or Nuccio,in Tampa,both are Factory authorized.

Thanks for the heads-up. I'll call them. ~rick

[Gunnery Sergeant Hartman]

Do them a favor and let them know price is your main influence...

[rickintampa]

Originally posted by BoltonNC

Originally posted by rickintampa

Originally posted by BoltonNC
I still want to pay as little as possible to get as much as possible.

Famous last words...

I do a load calc on every house whether the HO wants one or not. It is insurance for me and my company that the job is being done correctly.
If the homeowner wants a copy of the calculation, there is an up front charge.
If they buy a system from me I give it to them for free.
We do this because too many homeowners feel no remorse to take your information which has taken you hours to put together and "shop it around" to low ball installers...

That's great. If a contractor wants to do a load calc at his expense, I don't care if he shares the results with me or not. Obviously, I'm not going to buy a system without a quote, so if you do a load calc and then quote me on a particular system, I'll pretty much know the results of the test. If your quote is too high, I'll shop elsewhere for a comparable system.~rick

You may find a comparable system, but not a comarable install...
Install is worth 100X more than the system.
Good luck and I'm glad I'm not in your area for you to waste my time...

Thanks; couldn't agree more. ~rick

[rickintampa]

Originally posted by travisfl

Originally posted by rickintampa
I want the load calc only to verify what I already feel is the right choice. If it comes back at 2.5 I will indeed ignore it as a flawed test. A bad test can happen even in the most controlled environment. Plus, logic tells me that a developer-installed, original system is likely to be either too small or barely adequate, rather than too large.

A load calculation isn't a test, it is a mathematical process by which the heat gain (loss) of the area is determined, measured in BTU. You may not agree with the results or you may think they are flawed because they don't fit your mental model of the right answer, but facts are facts.

Speaking of which, research shows that most homes have oversized air conditioners.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumeri...heets/cb7.html

Originally posted by rickintampa
And now the house is 30% bigger than it was originally.

And when you get the load calc done you'll know what you really need.

Originally posted by rickintampa
The electric company is coming tomorrow to do an energy audit and duct inspection. If they say the existing ducts are good, I'll take their word for it.

Be sure you understand what they mean as "good". In Progress Energy's energy audit program they only check for leaks - they don't calculate or measure duct capacity.

All points well noted; thanks. Since you bothered explaining that much, maybe you can tell me how a load test is done, insofar as exactly what information you have to collect about a particular home to do the calculations, and what info the home owner must provide. In other words, let's say that you're in a home to do the load calc, what info, measurements, etc. do you need? Can you kind of summarize the process? ~rick

[rickintampa]

One reason I ask is that a contractor just told me that the load calc is hard to do without a floor plan. True or false, in your opinion?

[travisfl]

Originally posted by rickintampa
... a contractor just told me that the load calc is hard to do without a floor plan. True or false, in your opinion?

Partly true. Having a 'to scale' floor plan would make it easier to calculate the room sizes and would reduce the hassle of performing a room-by-room heat gain (loss) calculation. However, since you aren't going to be changing your duct work it is practical to do a "whole house" load calculation. You'll still need the size of the foundation, the height and construction of the walls, the amount of insulation (foundation, attic, walls..), the types, sizes, and locations of windows and doors, and a few other things. It isn't as bad as it sounds.

Click on the target on the top of this page for information on how to do your own load calculation.

[rickintampa]

Originally posted by travisfl

Originally posted by rickintampa
... a contractor just told me that the load calc is hard to do without a floor plan. True or false, in your opinion?

Partly true. Having a 'to scale' floor plan would make it easier to calculate the room sizes and would reduce the hassle of performing a room-by-room heat gain (loss) calculation. However, since you aren't going to be changing your duct work it is practical to do a "whole house" load calculation. You'll still need the size of the foundation, the height and construction of the walls, the amount of insulation (foundation, attic, walls..), the types, sizes, and locations of windows and doors, and a few other things. It isn't as bad as it sounds.

Click on the target on the top of this page for information on how to do your own load calculation.

Got it. Thanks again. ~rick

[bigalf]

but ours here in SC will do a Manual J for you as part of the energy audit (no charge), you might ask if they will do the same for you.

Wow, Swampfox, sure hope you are here in the Upstate and use Broad River cause I am in the midst of replacing my system also and could use something for free.

[rickintampa]

Hey Guys,

I want to thank everyone who shared their advice, opinions, and comments, and helped me make what I believe was a very good choice. I got a Carrier 3 1/2-ton, 12 SEER, Puron heat pump with new electrical, new copper, new duct work, 10/10/2 years warranty. $3,990 installed. I was very happy with the professionalism of the company (Easy A/C in Tampa) and with the nice, neat installation. Thanks again to all! ~rick

[polar121]

With roughly 1800 Square feet your looking at 3.5 ton. You might even want to go with 4 ton. You will need to change your duct also. You figure (roughly)500 square feet per ton. depending on how many windows, ceiling height and so on. but say it is 3.5 , your duct system was suited for a 2.5 , you won't have enough air flow, as far as the additions being added on and no air flow, air flow depends on how far and where they are located on the trunk line makes a difference also, there is booster fans you can get, but first thing is , how much return air do you have in this room if any ? for air to go in , it must have a way out. As far as brands.. Choose by warranty and not by comercials. there are a few companys that make parts for all air conditioners. there are 3 or 4 major compressor companys. they sell to all, you might get a Carrier and a Goodman and they have the same parts in them. it all depends on what color you want it to be totally honest. Look at the Warranty, Look at who you have installing it. Check some references. No matter what anyone tells you about brand, it is mostly thier opinion. most company's offer higher and lower equipment. Take Rheem, there is rudd , rheem, and weather king. Carrier also makes comfortmaker, Amana is owned by Goodman. Sears is whoever gives them the best bid ... and if you bought that many condensers from a company they'd slap your name on them just like they do SEARS . so check the contractor out first. ask for references, go check them out. see how they are installed and talk to the people that live there. They will give you thier honest answer without being biased.

[jasond1011]

the old room addition probably has ducts tapped into the very end of a trunk that has virtually no air left by the time it gets to feed your new room. thats cause the builder used a cheap ac guy or a knucklehead to scab in the ductwork. the new ducts must be pulled all the way back to the main plenum then tied in. this way the increased load is taken from the whole house. and you have effectively increased the size of the whole duct system without replacing the whole duct system. now you are ready to si=ze up the load. the new room probably has a lot of exterior exposure and glass so load calcs are need but, and extra ton should do nicely . now buy yourself a nice 13 seer trane or american standard or carrier and enjoy . note carrier payne bryant all the same animal ,just dressed up different. all good run away from puron or 410a refrigerant as fast as you can get yoiur tennis shoes on. 22 is still the only way to go unless youd like to participate in the mfg field trials

[dash]

jason,

try http://www.410a.com

Field trials were over years ago,Puron/R410a is the future,available today.

[dougly]

look at Carrier's 2 stage R410a heat pump. it's rated at 17 seer.Puron is the way to go.Also use the Carrier Fe4 air handler with the Infinty Control. It's the best system on the market today.

[berad]

Look into using a ductless minisplit like a Sanyo or Panasonic int the addition. Then replace the main system and eliminate the two runs tapped into the main system for the room addition. Definatley a man. j and man d. Brand is less important than proper installation. Any of your major brands will do. If the price seems to cheap, it probably is. Good work is not cheap and cheap work is not good.

[tapthenet]

We're in St Pete, Florida. We have 4 estimates, all of whom recommend American Standard, to replace our 12-year-old 3.5 ton, 10 SEER Amana Heat Pump which is on its last legs.

One a/c contractor says to use an A/C with a 15 KW heat strip. Another one suggested we go with an American Standard heat pump 3.5 ton with 12.5 SEER or 4-ton with 14 SEER. (The 12.5 SEER is derived by putting a 3.5 ton 12 SEER heat pump with a 14 SEER air handler...is it smart to mix and match like that?)

Our 28-year old home has 1970 heated sq ft, so we're told we're on the borderline for either 3.5 or 4-ton.

One contractor we're ruling out since his price is 2X every one else's. However, one contractor came to us recommended by a builder-contractor, but is not a member of the Better Business Bureau. The other two are listed in the Better Business Bureau with no complaints. The last one is also listed as an American Standard "Customer Care" dealer.

Given that this forum says it's all in the installation, how do we decide which contractor to use?

And what size and SEER should we obtain?

Your input would be helpful.

[Travis in FL]

Originally posted by tapthenet
Our 28-year old home has 1970 heated sq ft, so we're told we're on the borderline for either 3.5 or 4-ton.

How are the contractors calculating the size of the A/C and heat strips that they are recommending? Rules of Thumb such as square footage won't work. The ONLY acceptable means of determining system size is a heat gain / heat loss calculation, commonly known as a "Manual J". If your choosen contractors are all using Rules of Thumb, find another contractor.

Originally posted by tapthenet
Given that this forum says it's all in the installation, how do we decide which contractor to use?

Call the city building department (ask for Richard Cuffie), give them the names of your four contractors, and see what they have to say about the quality of their installations. Ask the contractors for references and go visit their customers. Ask your neighbors who they have used. Call the Tampa Bay area American Standard distributor and ask them who they would recommend.

Originally posted by tapthenet And what size and SEER should we obtain?

See my comments about sizing. At current electric rates of 10 cents / kwh you won't get a payback for anything more than about 13.0 SEER during the life of the system. In the AS line, consider the American Standard Heritage 14 with a variable speed air handler. Oversizing by .5 ton to get a higher SEER is a common accepted practice. It is a fine idea, especially with the VS air handler.

[Edited by Travis in FL on 04-04-2005 at 09:53 AM]

[dash]

If your 3.5 ton has always done a good job,there is no need to go to a 4 ton,so I'd drop the one that suggested that.


Now your home may have had insulation ,or other imrovements added,which could mean,3.5 tons is too large,or it could have been oversized by someone.

Best/safest thing is to have a Manual J,load calculation,to size it right.

Installation is certainly a major part of the job,but Brands do have differences in the benefits and features offered.In your humid climate ,ask about the dehumidification ability,of what you are buying.

Carrier,has the best in their Infinity Control System,but most brands have something to offer,be sure you get a variable speed motor in the indoor unit and controls to reduce the humidity ,regardless of the brand YOU choose.

[billva]

it sounds like you may want to give travis a call. if he knows the inspector he must be nearby.

regarding the upgrades to equipment, the first factor you need to know is, how long do you plan to live here? if it's 10 years or less, you really need to crunch the numbers.

many times, using the cost difference and adding insulation alone makes things equal out over time economically.

comfort however, will be better attained with the higher end equipment such as variable speed motors, 2 speed compressors, and other accessories like programmable thermostats, air cleaners, dehumidifiers(for your climate)and the list could go on, and probably will.

bottom line is get a load calc done, or hit the target at the top of the page and do your own.

good luck

[bornriding]

In my opinion, you do not need a heat pump where yu are at.
Heat pumps only save in winter ( heating ) season, and you don;'t have much of a heating season. Also heat pumps have more parts, with more repair bills, and usually won't last as long as a cooling unit with electric heat.
And at 1900+ sg ft, I would think a 3.5 ton is plenty unless you have single-pane windows, lots of cracks, etc., maybe older home with little insulation.