Didn't read the posting rules, did ya? Go back and read 'em again, and see what you've done wrong. Then we can talk. Sorry.
Hello all, I'm very new to the forum and I have a few simple questions to ask, and maybe some advice. 5 years and 5 months ago I had my home warranty company send some guys out that installed a new Payne outside condenser unit. One year after the indoor unit was replaced as well, but what's gone on now is the outdoor unit's compressor has "Frozen up." Not the ice kinda frozen, like seized up completely and just snaps the breaker and blew the outside fuses in the panel.
Sadly, I've contacted Payne about the issue and they can't do a thing about it as it's roughly 3 months out of warranty and a new compressor is $. Now to replace that, and the labor it's going to hit me hard in the pocket book, say close to $ to take care of and with the holiday season here it's impossible to do for me at the moment. I'm huddled down with my wife in the front room with a space heater just trying to get by which is kinda sad imho.
We've had a tech come out to try and service the unit ($ later and a hard start kit that the unit ran for a day and a half before it seized completely) who's on hold currently til I can somehow wrangle the money up for the repair.
I guess my question to you guys is this, is "Payne" a fairly reputable company? I mean 3 months out of warranty to have something just go bad kind of strikes an odd note to me. What would you guys do in a situation like this; is it worth trying to fix the old one only to have it go bad due to a poor product line or was it just a "fluke" that it went out on me to begin with? I've tried to work with Payne and possibly even work out a discounted compressor but that was a no-go, they didn't even want to hear what I had to say.
Any and all advice would be deeply appreciated as this has impacted us very hard on top of my wife's hours being cut as well as mine and we're trying to stay afloat with the economy being so strange right now.
Eagerly awaiting a response and huddled around my lasko space heater,
K.Wells
Last edited by beenthere; 12-04-2010 at 05:24 AM. Reason: prices
Didn't read the posting rules, did ya? Go back and read 'em again, and see what you've done wrong. Then we can talk. Sorry.
They didn't make the compressor.I've tried to work with Payne and possibly even work out a discounted compressor but that was a no-go, they didn't even want to hear what I had to say.
It was originally installed on a mismatch indoor coil(13 SEER condenser on a made for 10 SEER indoor coil). So it was abused when it was installed. Bad on an A/c, really bad on a heat pump.
Too late now to go back to the installer of home warranty company.
So either save up the money to replace the compressor. or save up the money to replace the outdoor unit, and indoor unit.
Also, if its a heat pump, you probably have aux hat. Look on you thermostat, for an emergency heat setting.
PS: NO prices in post, I removed yours already.
Payne is a product of United technologies which is the same company that owns Carrier. In our local supply house the two are sold side by side with the Carrier being considered the top of the line and the Payne is the more affordable economy model. There is no reason that a properly installed Payne unit shouldn't last longer than 5 years.
In your situation I would opt for a new outdoor unit with a matching indoor coil and lineset. I know money is tight but you would get a new warranty (I think the new Payne warranty is 10 years) and the system would be matched. Good luck to you.
It could be a fluke, but many times compressors are the victim and not the culprit. Many compressors are killed due to air restrictions in the house, like not enough ductwork to handle the tonage of the unit or filters getting dirty and not changed enough by the homeowner. Or the system gets a leak in it somewhere and the homeowner doesn't want to pay to have the leak repaired, but instead chooses to just keeping charging the A/C and this works for a few yrs and then often the compressor valves get warped and compressor gives up the ghost. Also it is recommended to have the outdoor unit cleaned by a trained pro, and if that coil gets too dirty it will kill a compressor.
As you can see there are many factors involved in a compressor failing, many of which do not fall back on the manufacturer. I recommend having a trained pro out to check things out to see if there might be an issue that caused your compressor to go out, and mixed matched seer rating from indoor coil to outdooor unit like stated by another poster can also take out your compressor.
Payne did a great job covering their warranty for 5 yrs, but 5yrs is 5yrs. Heck you pay $40,000 for a car and used to only get 3yrs or 36,000 miles and noone griped about that.
PS. When I say trained pro, I mean someone other than the contractor your homewarranty company wants to send out.
Sorry to hear. Too bad the hard start did not bring it back from the dead for a longer time. Sometimes they do.
Where is the manual? What does it say?
I just spoke with my AC guy about a mismatched indoor and outdoor unit and that may be a possibility. I'm not an expert here that's why of course I decided to ask for help for people who work in the industry. The indoor unit is only a year old and I'm going to have to check on the SEER rating to see how badly matched they are and if that's what caused the issue. From what he told me the units are both running R12 and there are other units are running 134. As I said, I am no expert but I know that older vehicles ran on R12, and newer run on 134.
The only thing I can think of is when the first condenser went, they put in a new one to match the old exchanger. When they came back out and put in the new exchanger something may have happened in the process. Who knows at this point to be honest but I'm going to probably end up replacing both and having him double check the ducting to make sure there are no obstructions or anything crazy going on.
As far as "Home Warranties" go, I relieved myself of their services for several reasons and horror stories that aren't anyone's concern.
I do apologize about the "Pricing" thing as I wasn't hunting or pecking to find out if I'm being treated fairly. The gentleman who is taking care of me now is very honest and we have very close friends in common.
Let's see where this goes from here.
Wow, not too sure what kind of car you drive for 40k, but maybe I should change occupations and become an HVAC expert!
You have to admit though, if you did pay 40,000k for a car and 3 years 5 months went by or put 36,500 on a vehicle and it broke down, you'd be a little disenhearted and a little more careful the second time around. That's what I'm trying to do here... find out if it was just a fluke, or if it was a common issue with the prior unit. In short now I'm trying to find out if there's a really good brand that I can depend on for my hard earned money and time I'm putting twards getting this fixed and possibly offer advice to friends that happen to run into similar situations.
Anyway, I ditched that "Home Warranty" place not too long ago for obvious reasons as there were several other issues that I won't get into as I stated a little bit ago. As far as being an "expert", the gentleman that is taking care of me has went to college for HVAC and I feel I'm in great hands now.
Something tells me that "Beenthere" is on the right track with this. A mismatch of equipment. I'll have a look at the unit and talk to my HVAC tech to lay options on the table and see which option will be affordable yet dependable in the situation I'm in right now. The problem with what happened last time is I was told that my equipment was being "Brought up to date since my last escursion" and he spoke poorly of my R12 unit. Now I don't know anything about the differences between R12 and 410 but I'll be reading up on it shortly. Currently I'm running R12 according to my tech, but if 410 is more efficient and will be affordable I'll definately be going in the direction of replacing everything and making sure it's done right.
Once bitten, twice shy.
K. Wells
On central A/C's for homes. the old refrigerant was R22. and the new refrigerant is R410A.
Thank you for the kind advice. I'm very grateful for all the help and understanding that some of you have offered and the time in responding to my questions. It's so easy at times for folks on alot of message bases to be a part of a problem with snarky responses and not a part of a solution which in turn is a bad business practice.
I do believe there is a difference between ignorance and stupidity; after being burned in the past on different fronts I've become the individual that chooses to listen and learn THEN make a decision versus just throwwing away time and money.
Again, I'm very grateful for those of you who've helped.
K. Wells
No one can say for sure why the compressor seized prematurely. The list of items that can cause a compressor to seize either directly or indirectly can be long. Someone would have to do a full system inspection to see what may have caused it. If you do opt. for a new compressor vs changing the whole system ( indoor / outdoor coils) then you will want to have the tech. who is installing the new compressor to look through the system for anything that may have caused the old compressor to fail prematurely.
Where is the manual? What does it say?
Trane puts a sticker on their replacements compressors saying "Respect Compressors"
Translation = It is almost never a bad compressor, watch what you do this compressor cost a LOT of money.
One good dirty filter will kill a compressor as fast as anything.
If money is an issue & it sounds like it is then replacing just the outside unit might be an option. If I understand things right, the inside unit is only a year old so that should make it at least a 13 SEER Air Handler. There's a good possibility your tech can find a 13 SEER R22 condenser that would match up with the inside unit. That would probably cost you about half the money than a complete system would. Now if you're thinking about the tax credit that's another story but that also might be a good option. A 13 SEER 410A unit is no more efficient than a 13 SEER R22 unit.
Gary
-----------
http://www.oceanhvac.com
The best things in life are free but not everyone is willing to pay the price.
When you appreciate what you have, you have a lot more.