Air bound hydronic heat system-Help!
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  1. #1

    Question

    I have a relatively new Weil McLain Gold GV Series 3 gas-fired boiler w/ a Superstore domestic water heater installed in 2001 and located in the basement. The system is a 2 zone (1st and 2nd floor) with Taco 007 circulators and 1" copper pipe is used throughout. There is a Honeywell air eliminator at the 30PSI expansion tank. Baseboard units are used on the living spaces. This heating season,the system has become air bound and I have had to bleed the lines every other day. I have had numerous site visits from 2 different HVAC contractors that can't fix the problem. Even the Weil McLain field rep couldn't figure it out. There are no leaks in the pipes, there are no automatic valves on the system, the coin valves at the baseboard units are all closed tightly, and I have a high quality air eliminator at the expansion tank. Any input would be extremely helpful--Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    763
    how are you getting the air out now? at the baseboards I assume? Try this... do you have boiler drains on the returns? hook a hose to one and open it... take your bypass and open it and blast water thru the system at 25 to 30 lbs just so ya don't pop off the pop off valve... do one then the other.... check your air eliminator too.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    763
    any air should be felt in the bypass when it comes thru it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    3,708
    Where it sounds like your near boiler piping is correct.I
    assume you have persistent gurgling in the pipe,if so its
    possible that with the 007 and 1 inch pipe could have your
    flow velocity too low and it cant get the air back to your
    deaerator.

    I agree with airconman,force air purging is the ticket.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    manitowoc wisconsin
    Posts
    4,943
    It could be the location of the pump in combination with a failed air eliminator.Or it could be you air eliminator is not performing properly due to poor piping practices/location of pump in system.I am not familiar with honeywell air eliminator.The best there is out there is spirovent imo. http://www.spirotherm.com/air/ I would also read about "pumping away" http://www.bellgossett.com/Press/Cou...tJan2001-A.pdf
    Take your time & do it right!

  6. #6

    air bound?

    What are you calling a coin valve? I suspect your referring to balancing valves or possibly key vents.

    If your referring to balancing valves the slot is the same as the blade inside. So being perpendicular to the flow of the pipe would have them shut off completely.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    763
    hey steam fitter i have a question for ya..... any short cuts getting air out when I have to pump in antifreeze?

  8. #8

    air bound

    We've always put glycol in from a high point and let it down feed. Electric drum pump for the big jobs and hand pumps for the smaller ones.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    763
    I have no problem gettin it in there, just thought ya might have a whiz bang idea gettin the air I'm gonna put in it out of it..... without spendin half a day.

  10. #10

    air bound

    There's no real shortcuts. Just trying to vent as fast as you're introducing the glycol helps. Let the system set for a short time for the air to get to the high points, bleed and don't turn any pumps on until you get 99% of the air out. Let the automatics do the rest.

  11. #11

    Thanks to everyone for your quick replies!

    I will try these suggestions and see if they work.

    Thanks again

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    3,182
    Originally posted by airconman
    I have no problem gettin it in there, just thought ya might have a whiz bang idea gettin the air I'm gonna put in it out of it..... without spendin half a day.

    If you have a purge valve on the return try this.
    Use two 5 gallon buckets. Pump the glycol out of its bucket into the system and use the other bucket to purge the air into. When the bucket gets close to full, switch the lines and draw from that bucket. You can tell when the airs gone by watching for bubbles from the line in the bucket your purging into. As long as you keep both lines under water/glycol and don't purge faster than the pumps supplying, it does'nt take long.
    Little Giant makes a small pump that works great for this and it will only build up pressure to between 12 and 15 #.
    I don't know if this is something new to you, but I've found this to be the quickest and cleanest way.
    You may still need to do a little bit of purging from the rads depending on the piping arrangement but this speeds up the process.

  13. #13
    STEAMFITTER-I incorrectly called the in-linebleeder valves at the baseboard radiators "coin valves". They look like a screw cap at the copper line and you can turn it clockwise or counterclockwise to release air.

    MARKWOLF - I had a Spirovent Jr. on the system originally and it was changed out to the Honeywell because we weren't sure if it was working.

    Thanks

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