ReplySo the guys that held out for a product and took the ass chewings miss out because of someone else-nice.Originally Posted by sysint
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I go back to the value proposition. If you get it for nothing how much do you care? I sent a controller to a guy from a multi-hundreds million dollar operation that I had sent a controller reasoning that if a multi-hundreds million dollar operation was interested this could be good. Well, today after I don't know how many, many months he just is going to take a look, has some issue (not ours) and there is zero RTFM going on.
Sometimes it's better you pay a little for hardware. Otherwise it has no value. Further, with ISO standards and logistics take backs are a ***** (female dog). It's not worth it.
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So the guys that held out for a product and took the ass chewings miss out because of someone else-nice.
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We aren't done yet... you made the value proposition. That gives some ammunition for my gun. I'll fire some bullets with it.
Controls Committee
Fee is paid upfront w/a time frame before more fees are tacked on. Now it has value and time stipulation to work w/it and not just leave it on the shelf.
Device returned the fee/partial fee is re-imburst/credited back.
Last edited by crab master; 12-07-2010 at 10:53 PM. Reason: Return comment
"How it can be considered "Open" is beyond me. Calling it "voyeur-ed" would be more accurate." pka LeroyMac, SkyIsBlue, fka Freddy-B, Mongo, IndyBlue
BIG Government = More Dependents
"Any 'standard' would be great if it didn't get bastardised by corporate self interest." MatrixTransform
My 5 yr old son "Dad, Siri is not very smart when there's no internet."
Professional Member
Guerrmo666 - Distech? Well, I've got some questions for you.
How many years did it take you to fine-tune your product hardware/software In my opinion, 12--18 months, but our product development utilizes a high degree of standardization across different products & product lines, i.e common form factors, software tools, etc... There are pros and cons to this approach, but the upside is the length of time it takes to fine-tune the products is somewhat shorter.
What do you think about your card access and lighting solutions?Both are solid & reliable. When we sell it we try to be honest in distinguishingn between access control and security. What we offer is the former, not the latter. We recently purchased a company with some very interesting lighting solutions. More to come on that front.
How do you think you managed your entry into the market with open products? On a scale from 1-10, 10 being excellent, about an 8. We emerged during somewhat uncertain times in our industry. The fact that we are still here and are doing well speaks volumes in terms of our having made the correct decisions.
Did you use distributors? Yes, a few.
Did you have integrators? Yes, quite a few.
Did you have both integrators and distributors using the same products? For now, the answer is yes, but it is the subject of much discussion. I will tell you that I am in the minority on this topic.
How did you decide who/how many integrators you would have in an area? We use a variety of tools to determine market potential, i.e Frost & Sullivan, various market profiles, population, building types, etc...then make a collective decision as to what percentage of the market we would like to have in any given market. Usually, we would like, as a minimum, a market share equal to our North American market share as a whole, but we also tend to err on the side of patience in terms of allowing adequate time for our integrators to build their BAS business. There is an incremental cost for every integrator we have in our channel, so if we can meet our sales goals with a single integrator in a market, then that's what we will have. If we need 3, then we have 3. All of this is determined over a period of years, and we still take great care to provide alternative sources to building owners when circumstances warrant our doing so.
How has this changed very recently? The short answer is we are trying to add structure to our sales channel without compromising product access or openness. Our approach over the last 15 years has generally yielded good results, but it has also been a bit of a double-edged sword. We have had problems with companies that are on every other day our direct competitors, taking advantage of the increased access to our products to take work from committed integrators, who have a vested financial interest in Distech. They are usually buying our products through intermediaries (what I contravention referred to as gray market devices) and are often doing a less than stellar job of applying it and installing it. As i said in my original post, this is to a large degree a problem of our own making, and I don't blame our competitors. But it is a problem that still needs to be remedied because it doesn't represent incremental growth to our company when we are merely moving revenue from one bucket to another. It also damages our brand, and deflates the enthusiasm for Distech within our conventional sales channel. There's no easy solution, and even the ones that seem relatively innocuous have been met with controversy and resistance. But we're trying to come up with something that is fair to all. It's just not easy,
Professional Member
I don't think training is that burdensome. For most BAS manufacturers it's a week or two taken during the 1st year that you have the product line. In our case, the 2nd week is mandated by Tridium, but overall we show considerable latitude, honor training taken at other companies when it is applicable to our product, and it is rarely required for a single product. A lot of our training can be taken online, requires only a few hours. Granted there are always some that don't need to take training, but the overwhelmingly majority of integrators do need it. In fact they demand it, and are glad to get it. There are also a heck of a lot of integrators who didn't realize they needed it, until they actually took the training. In other words, "they didn't know what they didn't know" until they took training. But the bottom line, the one thing most BAS integrators should care about, is that without question, it reduces your net product costs by enabling BAS manufacturers establish a baseline competency for their customers that in turn helps them keep tech support costs down.
Controls Committee
G666 - kudos for answering all the questions and for having online training.
"How it can be considered "Open" is beyond me. Calling it "voyeur-ed" would be more accurate." pka LeroyMac, SkyIsBlue, fka Freddy-B, Mongo, IndyBlue
BIG Government = More Dependents
"Any 'standard' would be great if it didn't get bastardised by corporate self interest." MatrixTransform
My 5 yr old son "Dad, Siri is not very smart when there's no internet."
Controls Committee
Where did I miss the online training? Are you referring to the video tutorials?
"Controls is a lifestyle not a job" -klrogers
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Online training would be great, I'm not saying I know everything but what I'm saying is I cant leave and go to training for a week everytime I want to try a new product.
Professional Member
I will 2nd that, online training would be excellant, as long as you could still get your hands on a controller or demo unit first.
Dazza
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Online training sounds easy. Not easy if you want to do it right. Further, not cheap. I just visited a company with a nice training facility and their virtual training lab was very nice.
Professional Member*
Well, "Online Training" really sounds great (from a management/expense perspective), but it's only for someone who wants to learn, and has the background to understand what it is they're looking at. Have many years of experience training adults in exotic telecommunications equipment, and saw disastrous results when a switch was made from instructor-led to online. It really all depends on the student's prior background and willingness to learn. People who want to learn will do some research on their own and ask questions, those who are there for the ride will sit back and gripe about the excessive theory or similar. I remember training (with a co-instructor) about 150 students from a large company in Texas, and all most wanted was to learn the commands to interface with the device, only about 10 of them wanted to find out how to use the test equipment and actually understand how the box really worked.
It is just like this forum, some come to ask one question and go away, others are genuinely interested in their profession and want to pass on their experience so others can learn. Boy, that sounds pretty altruistic and off the original topic, better get back to snow shovelling...
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How many years did it take you to fine-tune your product hardware/software In my opinion, 12--18 months, but our product development utilizes a high degree of standardization across different products & product lines, i.e common form factors, software tools, etc... There are pros and cons to this approach, but the upside is the length of time it takes to fine-tune the products is somewhat shorter.
I'm talking about Lonwatcher.
What do you think about your card access and lighting solutions? Both are solid & reliable. When we sell it we try to be honest in distinguishingn between access control and security. What we offer is the former, not the latter.
The estructures? Did you ever make a plugin for that one with some management software or did you bury it?
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