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  1. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    You ought to apply for one of those "death panel" jobs.
    I am not in any way advocating this stance.

    If I were, I would be advocating the death of my own wife who has a chronic condition that costs our insurance carrier about $100k annually to treat.

    I am simply making the point that the means used to achieve the end result of a healthier society are important.

    If people are suffering because they have to wait for treatment, then that is a problem as far as I'm concerned.

  2. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Simple:

    If a person has a medical condition that costs more than the current average annual expenditure per person, we cut off their treatment. Basically, we kill them.

    This saves us untold healthcare dollars and improves the average health of people by eliminating the unhealthy people in society.


    Costs = $0

    Yeah, it will suck for a year or so while these people die off, but we'll be better off in the long run.
    Actually you will not be able to weed out the bad from the good as people get older, especially with a Western lifestyle they are going to develop chronic diseases. And since the Baby Boomers are getting older it is a good thing you have all those young Mexicans wanting to take your places. Otherwise your solution will leave the country short of people. Mind you immigration from Muslim countries is always another option.

  3. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post

    If people are suffering because they have to wait for treatment, then that is a problem as far as I'm concerned.
    And that is where the drug companies want to fill a niche. A pain free society.

  4. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    I am not in any way advocating this stance.

    If I were, I would be advocating the death of my own wife who has a chronic condition that costs our insurance carrier about $100k annually to treat.

    I am simply making the point that the means used to achieve the end result of a healthier society are important.

    If people are suffering because they have to wait for treatment, then that is a problem as far as I'm concerned.
    Average lifespan would mean nothing then in your analysis of healthcare I take it.

    You say it would be messy for a year or so. It seems to me the problem would be ongoing. Wasn't there a movie like this?

    OK you sold me. Actually it might take a big bite out of the Tea Party and the Republican Party.

  5. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    RoBo you do more complaining about this country than anybody I know. Why don't you leave? Setup a website and I will donate, hopefully to a country with no internet.
    Wow! What an original retort! Where'd you come up with this idea?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  6. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    You have repeated this several times.

    Problem is that "better results" is subjective.

    In order to lower costs, something has to go away. It appears that is going to be quality of care.

    You don't get Filet Mignon at Ground Chuck prices.
    But under Socialist standards, ground chuck will be more costly then filet mignon, if available to the "subjects" at all.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Wow! What an original retort! Where'd you come up with this idea?
    From you, I lowered myself to your level. I have learned that if I answer appropriately I may have to deal with repurcussions. So I was careful to talk down to you in the same language you spoke to me. Afterall you represent this website on the Membership Committee, I wouldn't want to escalate this. Again welcome back.

  8. #60
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    If I am understanding the conversation properly, let me give an example; My sister was given basically no hope of survival a few months ago. Yet the doctors continued to treat her with very costly treatments that have never been successful on her particular type of cancer, which is always fatal. Was a lot of money wasted on the inevitable? Should my sister have been left to die without the additional treatments that have never succeeded?

    The argument from the medical industry when asked if there was a chance that these treatments would work on my sister were vague; "There's always a chance." comments. Does our medical industry use us as commodity items in order to pad their bank accounts with expensive treatments that have the same potential for success as does; "If God will it."?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  9. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    But under Socialist standards, ground chuck will be more costly then filet mignon, if available to the "subjects" at all.
    No. The dictator could simply set the price of meat at whatever point he desired. Market forces don't apply to dictotors, remember?

    Didnt Chavez do exactly this?

  10. #62
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    Western PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    If I am understanding the conversation properly, let me give an example; My sister was given basically no hope of survival a few months ago. Yet the doctors continued to treat her with very costly treatments that have never been successful on her particular type of cancer, which is always fatal. Was a lot of money wasted on the inevitable? Should my sister have been left to die without the additional treatments that have never succeeded?

    The argument from the medical industry when asked if there was a chance that these treatments would work on my sister were vague; "There's always a chance." comments. Does our medical industry use us as commodity items in order to pad their bank accounts with expensive treatments that have the same potential for success as does; "If God will it."?
    Understand that I do NOT support the argument that I am making.

    I recently lost my father to untreatable cancer.

    At the end, he chose to go with no treatments except medication for pain.



    I do think that there is a degree of merit to the second part of your reply. There is always a 'chance' that a given treatment will work, even if it is in the fractions of a percent.

  11. #63
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    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    From you, I lowered myself to your level. I have learned that if I answer appropriately I may have to deal with repurcussions. So I was careful to talk down to you in the same language you spoke to me. Afterall you represent this website on the Membership Committee, I wouldn't want to escalate this. Again welcome back.
    When I am posting, I am just another member posting. I can assure you that I get no special treatment. In fact, I had to fight being considered someone who should be held to a higher standard so I could properly communicate with other members such as yourself.

    Immitation being a most forthright form of flattery; thanks for the compliment.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    No. The dictator could simply set the price of meat at whatever point he desired. Market forces don't apply to dictotors, remember?

    Didnt Chavez do exactly this?
    Chavez has done a lot for his people unlike a lot of regimes we have supported in the past.

    It seems socialist countries and countries that are more socialist than us are doing well.


    http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top...-life-map.html

  13. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    When I am posting, I am just another member posting. I can assure you that I get no special treatment. In fact, I had to fight being considered someone who should be held to a higher standard so I could properly communicate with other members such as yourself.

    Immitation being a most forthright form of flattery; thanks for the compliment.
    YW, I will go in the mud with you anytime.

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