Union or non???

[studentnmu]

I just filled out an application for the union, Is this the way to go. I have been hearing from both ways?

[dec]

I have been non union most of my hvac life but being honest I think that you will get better training serving an apprentiship through the union. Not saying going to work for a non union you wont learn a lot but I felt that starting with the union I had better training material. Now it still depends on what kind of teacher you get and if you end up in a shop willing to teach you or if their more interested in protecting their job. You wont know that up front so no sense in worrying about that lol.

[fastfred]

Union or non???

I have worked union/non union. Thirty plus years union; having recently retired. My first HVAC job post military,
was in a shop using non union heat/cool techs and union tin knockers. This was 1962: the apprentice tin knockers
were paid a couple of dollars more than the most experienced heat/cool mech.
My point is, since that time, "union" has been better for me. Do not expect everyone to feel the same. It (the union)
will be better for you, if you take advantage of the training courses, you have a good work ethic,apply yourself as well as you are able and if there is work in the area to keep you fully employed.
In my opioin the ideal job is with a contractor that hires you 50 weeks a year.
If you go the Union route,work responsibly,be dependable
and do not take it for granted. Also learn some Labor history in order to understand why and when union critics
present their anti-union dogma. Be an informed member.
I do not think that all workers should be organized perhaps 25-30 percent.This will help All workers and raise the standards for everyone. Even for those who choose not to or, are unable to work as a union member.

One more point: China does not allow unions. They also among other things,censor what their citizens post to the Internet.
Be very grateful that we, who live and work in this great country can even discuss issues of this nature.

[framehvac]

Most of my friends like it they say it is easier work.I applied but they said I would have to start at $9. an hour and work my way up after six year in hvac field $9. an hour I would give up the trade first.You pay for what you get.

[tinner73]

you can't look at the start pay. look at the journeyman's pay. in 6 years will you be better off or not.

[tinner73]

don't forget the bennies either

[framehvac]

Maybe you live in a dream world but I have bill if I didn't I would be in the union to.If you are new in the hvac field I would go for it to late for me I will just have to stay with the smaller companies.

[tinner73]

frame...here's my dreamworld.

signed book in 1989....and forgot about it.

got call for apprenticeship in 1992.

quit job making 15.50/hr(teamster). mortgage is $1100/month.

pre-apprenticeship/school..first 5 weeks..$35/week...$1/hr

pre-apprenticeship/school..second 5 weeks..$70/week...$2/hr

mortgage still $1100/month

first 6 month apprentice $6.50/hr. $260/week.

last wage was $36.04



my point is that you can do it. it's not easy. i worked two jobs for a long time. but it payed off in the long run. but as you can see i had some big bills myself. i looked at it like this..in 4 years (length of apprenticeship) where was i making more money, then it was an easy choice.

[framehvac]

In four years I will own a hvac company or be a service tech.I have paid my dues as a installer & learning service work.I plan to move on to better things I am only 29 but in four years I will be 32 I don't won't to be a installer for ever.

[tinner73]

in 4 years you'll be 33.

[framehvac]

My bad most of hit the wrong key that my story & am sticking with it.

[studentnmu]

sounds like the union is the way to go beside what you make when you are an apprentice what do you do when you are an apprentice just all of the journeymens work they dont want?

[tinner73]

that depends who you're working with. yes, you'll probably get the shitty work i.e. unloading trucks, cleaning up, etc. but you are there to learn. when i went through, the hall wanted to know what we were doing at work. they don't want you driving the truck for 5 years. you should gain experience in the shop and in the field. ears open mouth shut. just kidding, pay attention and do well in you're schooling. i don't know where you're at, but apprentice classes that started with 40-45 people commonly end up with 10 or less graduating around here. it's not easy to complete, nor should it be. we are paid well and the contractors want their money's worth.

[fitter51]

i started in the local 15 yrs ago when i started my rate was $6.35/hr. After five years where i not only learned a/c and ref. but also learned how to be a competant Steamfitter,welder and Mechanic. when i got out of my time the hr wage was $20.01 now it is $32.00/hr not including 3 pensions and the best healthcare my family could ask for. The unoin also allowed me the ability to make a move to a warmer climate and work from another hall. Granted the wages are less because the south pays less but my benifits are STILL there. I belive if you can make the sacrafice it is well worth it in the end.

[mdp]

Man I love when this thread reappears, it usually gets so lively. That aside, if the local union has a good service training program, and not all do, by all means go for it. In the long run you will benefit. Going the same route as non union is a hard row to hoe unless you're lucky enough to find one of the few companies that is dedicated to their employee's education. Granted, it can be done and if you stick with it and push yourself to learn more and try to be the best you can be you can make more money than union counterparts and if you're smart enough to only work for upright companies you can get a better benefit package than the unions offer. Beware, working union does not gaurantee you a job or an easy one at that. I manage a union shop and my guys are out there working overtime to get a building back up, or running emergency calls nights and weekends when the temperature drops to -20. This is the service trade. Our local can no longer provide us with trained commercial technicians and last ones they sent over we fired. Go into this with your eyes and mind open, good luck.

[willf650]

I will probably be the anti union guy here but I personally hate them. I don't know why but the union talent around here is far from spectactular and seems only about 1 in 10 is a decent mechanic. The electricians local is the opposite and thier guys are great. You can get as good and in the case with about 60% of the people in our shop better wages nonunion. We have had the votes several times in our shop over the past several years. It works out as a house cleaning every time. All the good guys vote no and stay. The loafers vote yes and leave our company to go union as the vote doesn't pass and wind up laid off in 6 months. We did lose one good guy thus far and he is missed but that is generally not the case. It may be different in different areas of the country. By the way my dad has been union pipe fitter for atleast 40 years and is retired and his son is a scab.

[old fitter]

The key is to define your goals.Nobody,
including the local is going to give you anything.
I was doing repairs,non union for 10 years,studied
everything I could get my hands on,and got my emloyers to send me to courses[carrier etc].I finally took two semesters of pneumatic controls,tested and entered as a journeyman.Proud to say much more qualified than the local service fitters.It depends on the local and thier service cirriculum.Chances are unless you take steps along the way to learn everything about complete systems,you will end up catagorized,bored,or un emloyed.These companys will pay 50 or more an hour to the right person,but you must formulate an arsanel of personality,work ethic and system knowledge.Some locals allow you to advance your years of status,if a contractor wants you by name.

[epitch]

I got in the union 7 years ago. I worked through my apprenticeship on and off. I learned a lot through the union apprenticeship and working with qualified technicians. The downfall of the union is that, in my area, when the work slows down in the slow parts of the year everyone is backstabbing and cutting each others throat. No matter how much you try to stay out of it and just do your job you are vulnerable. Just remember workmanship means nothing, loyalty means nothing, hard work means nothing. The only thing that means something is kissing ass. The union life is the exact opposite of everything I was taught growing up. If you are going to get in the hall be prepared to make good money, watch your back, and most of all get laid off for periods at a time.

[coolestacman]

if you get achance go union, training is best, you are represented when it comes to the government screwing with social security and other issues. In many cases you will never get better pension and benifits.

[coolestacman]

I should also add that there are many out there that are against the union, from past experiances. If you had the chang=ce to look into both sides of there stories you would find in many cases that expect the union to lick their boots and it did not so they got upset.
You have to remember that a union is not about an individual but about the members which is totaly against what these people believe in that are against the union. Every thing they believe is for them.