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Thread: 4th Amendment

  1. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by retired btc View Post
    Exactly my sentiments as well, It is my firm belief that there are way to many arm chair Patriots out there, its easy to sit in the warm comfort of ones home and cry foul , but its an whole different story when asked to actualy take a stand, get out there and take the fight to the source. The Internet is full of these type of people.

    I see people every day that have actualy done more then just talk about it and then I read on these forums percieved Patriots spouting about their rights and freedoms being infringed upon and doing nothing but sitting in their easy chairs singing the blues.

    Its really scary to think that as individual's we have become so spoiled and pampered we have become content to let others do our fighting for us.

    If these Internet Warriors really want to do something then let them get out there and take the fight to the source rather then cowering behind their computor screens in fear.
    Perhaps you can give me some suggestions as to what actions I can take to put my particular case in motion. I am very concerned regarding the current violations of the 4th amendment by TSA against the american citizen.

    I am open to suggestions from you as to what actions I can take that I am not currently taking.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  2. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by retired btc View Post
    Lol another band wagon jumber and yep your right some of us have actual fought for these rights you hold so dear , hmm which branch did you serve in ?

    P.S. heres a clue for you Zach, just because we are all not constitutional fundamentalist, doesn't make us all Liberal's.
    Bad news for you btc if it walks like a duck,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,conservatives allow for others opinions.

    And i dont want to hear another word about how you fought, if you had really fought you would open your mouth and tell everyone every second.
    You are another r.e.m.f., in the rear with the gear, dont ever think im going to believe you were one of the 1 out of 9 to 11 who was actually in combat in Vietnam.
    Dont ever put yourself in place next to Glen and boot and others here who actually were in harms way.
    Dont send me stupid private messages.
    Dont accuse me of not being worthy of accepting the benefits our constitution provides simply because there wasnt a war being fought while i was younger.

    You need to go get you serotonin level checked or better yet, stop with the act.
    And call me a little boy again, and i promise, i WILL tell you the truth until your wittle head implodes , you freak out and end up like so many others who demand something they dont deserve.
    You sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim.

  3. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by retired btc View Post
    Exactly my sentiments as well, It is my firm belief that there are way to many arm chair Patriots out there, its easy to sit in the warm comfort of ones home and cry foul , but its an whole different story when asked to actualy take a stand, get out there and take the fight to the source. The Internet is full of these type of people.

    I see people every day that have actualy done more then just talk about it and then I read on these forums percieved Patriots spouting about their rights and freedoms being infringed upon and doing nothing but sitting in their easy chairs singing the blues.

    Its really scary to think that as individual's we have become so spoiled and pampered we have become content to let others do our fighting for us.

    If these Internet Warriors really want to do something then let them get out there and take the fight to the source rather then cowering behind their computor screens in fear.
    BTC; you and I are very similar in thought!!!

    Where the difference may be (and I think this is normal for each person to differ) is in execution (not killing, how one does it). I am not trained nor am I young enough to do para-military stuff... and I am not a good enough public speaker to rally thousands for a cause... However what I can do is have causal conversations with folks and bring them to understand what the govt is doing covertly (behind closed doors). The result is more public scrutiny (watching with a critical eye) of every politician (regardless of party or philosophy). The result is voters that are informed... which to me is a HUGE step forward. No, I cannot influence or control someone else's vote... and I do not believe I should... but I CAN help then understand what they do not know.
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  4. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    Perhaps you can give me some suggestions as to what actions I can take to put my particular case in motion. I am very concerned regarding the current violations of the 4th amendment by TSA against the american citizen.

    I am open to suggestions from you as to what actions I can take that I am not currently taking.
    Here is what I did. I canceled three round trip tickets to Philly, Atlanta, and Colorado. Hit the airlines where it hurts. Only fly if it s unavoidable.

    My wife is being treated for a very mild skin cancer on her face. I will not subject her to radiation from those voyeur boxes they want us to walk through that can't even detect C4 if it is stuffed up your bum. The only person who gets to feel up my wife is me.

    They do not check the cargo so what is the point.

    I say follow the money. For some idiotic reason 100 million of the stimulus money was spent on manufacturing the voyeur boxes in a foriegn country. That sure helped our economy. It boils down to lobbyist and a few companies extracting hundreds of millions of dollars of our money to line their pockets and put on a theater show for the gubmint.

    The Israelis and other European countries are laughing at us. They achieve far better results by simply asking a few questions.

    In the 70's when the hijackings started in Israel they hardened their cockpit doors to stop the problem. In this country the airlines lobbied to not harden the cockpit doors and they won. If the cockpit doors in the three planes involved in the 911 attacks had been hardened 911 never would have happened. Why did the airlines fight hardening the doors? It cost too much money.

    Grab one of those TSA scans off the Internet and bring it up in a photo editing program. Then reverse the image from negative to positive. Presto, you have a nude picture. I is simply disgusting. I can only imagine how many pedophiles are trying to get jobs with the TSA so they can feel up little boys and girls.

    I just thought of another thing you can do. Act like you are a queer when they do the "enhanced pat down" and then ask the TSA worker if they have a card so you can hook up with him later. /rant
    Signature on hold. Trying to find a real Jefferson quote I like. Others here have bogus Jefferson quotes too.

  5. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgrr View Post
    Here is what I did. I canceled three round trip tickets to Philly, Atlanta, and Colorado. Hit the airlines where it hurts. Only fly if it s unavoidable.

    My wife is being treated for a very mild skin cancer on her face. I will not subject her to radiation from those voyeur boxes they want us to walk through that can't even detect C4 if it is stuffed up your bum. The only person who gets to feel up my wife is me.

    They do not check the cargo so what is the point.

    I say follow the money. For some idiotic reason 100 million of the stimulus money was spent on manufacturing the voyeur boxes in a foriegn country. That sure helped our economy. It boils down to lobbyist and a few companies extracting hundreds of millions of dollars of our money to line their pockets and put on a theater show for the gubmint.

    The Israelis and other European countries are laughing at us. They achieve far better results by simply asking a few questions.

    In the 70's when the hijackings started in Israel they hardened their cockpit doors to stop the problem. In this country the airlines lobbied to not harden the cockpit doors and they won. If the cockpit doors in the three planes involved in the 911 attacks had been hardened 911 never would have happened. Why did the airlines fight hardening the doors? It cost too much money.

    Grab one of those TSA scans off the Internet and bring it up in a photo editing program. Then reverse the image from negative to positive. Presto, you have a nude picture. I is simply disgusting. I can only imagine how many pedophiles are trying to get jobs with the TSA so they can feel up little boys and girls.

    I just thought of another thing you can do. Act like you are a queer when they do the "enhanced pat down" and then ask the TSA worker if they have a card so you can hook up with him later. /rant
    Good post!!! I think passive yet very noticeable resistance is a good idea. Nothing that could be construed as a crime and get one arrested... just what one can do to make life difficult and bring attention to a stupid thing.

    I still predict we will have an 'air incident' of some sort to scare the public... seems to happen every time the public gets fussy...

    Personally, I am through flying unless it is necessary... (I had pass-riding privlidges with the old Pan-Am Airways back in the late 1970's and late 1980's... It will never be that much fun to flay again for me.

    The idea in bold... good laugh! I wonder if we can organize the gay/lesbian community into using this as a 'rights' issue (only MY lover touches me)...
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  6. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    I do not remember how this quote goes or who said it: It goes something like this:

    "Those that would trade freedom for perceived safety or security deserve neither"

    I am sure it is one of the founding fathers of the USA.
    Ben Franklin 1775 in notes to himself to read to the Continental Congress. Off the top of my head you are correct except I believe the end of the quote went on to say "safety or security" after neither.
    Signature on hold. Trying to find a real Jefferson quote I like. Others here have bogus Jefferson quotes too.

  7. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    I am not interested in getting into the 'line of fire' on this thread... However I do have something to say:

    The goal of TSA is supposed to be safety for airplanes over US soil. If one analyzes the TSA's actions carefully, that goal is not evident in the behavior and attitude of the 'working stiffs' I see in the airport.

    I made over a dozen round-trips last year (2009), so I have some experience with this also. I found a lot of folks that were definitely in the 'peter principle' (a job beyond their mental/emotional/maturity level)... I also found a lot of folks that truly had an elitist attitude.... I also found folks that thought they were above the law. Now I also found a number of really good folks doing their job the best they could... but they were definitely the minority.

    Last time I checked, this constitution being argued over suggests (no it says in so many words) that ALL Americans get equal treatment unless they have a criminal record. (We can talk about whether non-citizens should have equal rights as citizens in another thread...personally I think not). When I see govt employees, pilots, flight attendants (sometimes), airline bosses, TSA employees, military, and a host of others getting to go around TSA... And even proposed muslim women in burks'a are exempt from pat-downs... well show me the equality here...

    Our country is falling apart at the seams because we are a bunch of primma-donna's expecting special treatment... yet all we can do is argue with each other over who gets a better deal than the other. Reminds me of a bunch of spoiled children...

    Get a grip guys/gals. We need to become ONE nation (united, rather than splintered);where everyone gets treated the same, and nobody expects special treatment... or these special interests are going to destroy it for everyone.

    I have seen it mentioned repeatedly, and I agree:
    The Muslims have already won: They have us living in fear so much we allow a tyrannical government to take away our freedoms; the very freedoms that made and continue to make this country great. Wake up folks...
    I will take it one step further. Osama Bin Laden won the war already. His stated goal before 911 was to cost America a trillion dollars and destroy the liberties Americans enjoy. He has not been captured and he has accomplished most of his stated goals. I don't call that losing.
    Signature on hold. Trying to find a real Jefferson quote I like. Others here have bogus Jefferson quotes too.

  8. #60
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    Maybe those "SAFE" scanners are not so safe afterall:

    Dr. Blaylock: Body Scanners More Dangerous Than Feds Admit

    Wednesday, November 24, 2010 9:58 AM

    By Dr. Russell Blaylock


    Dr. Russell Blaylock is a nationally recognized board-certified neurosurgeon, health practitioner, author, lecturer, and editor of The Blaylock Wellness Report.


    The growing outrage over the Transportation Security Administration’s new policy of backscatter scanning of airline passengers and “enhanced pat-downs” brings to mind these wise words from President Ronald Reagan: “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help you.’”

    So, what is all the concern really about — will these radiation scanners increase your risk of cancer or other diseases? A group of scientists and professors from the University of California at San Francisco voiced their concern to Obama’s science and technology adviser John Holdren in a well-stated letter back in April.

    The group included experts in radiation biology, biophysics, and imaging, who expressed “serious concerns” about the “dangerously high” dose of radiation to the skin.

    Radiation increases cancer risk by damaging the DNA and various components within the cells. Much of the damage is caused by high concentrations of free radicals generated by the radiation. Most scientists think that the most damaging radiation types are those that have high penetration, such as gamma-rays, but in fact, some of the most damaging radiation barely penetrates the skin.

    One of the main concerns is that most of the energy from the airport scanners is concentrated on the surface of the skin and a few millimeters into the skin. Some very radiation-sensitive tissues are close to the skin — such as the testes, eyes, and circulating blood cells in the skin.

    This is why defenders using such analogies as the dose being “1,000-times less than a chest X-ray” and “far less than what passengers are exposed to in-flight” are deceptive. Radiation damage depends on the volume of tissue exposed. Chest X-rays and gamma-radiation from outer space is diffused over the entire body so that the dose to the skin is extremely small. Of note, outer space radiation does increase cancer rates in passengers, pilots, and flight attendants.

    We also know that certain groups of people are at a much higher risk than others. These include babies, small children, pregnant women, the elderly, people with impaired immunity (those with HIV infection, cancer patients, people with immune deficiency diseases, and people with abnormal DNA repair mechanism, just to name a few).

    As we grow older, our DNA accumulates a considerable amount of unrepaired damage, and under such circumstances even low doses of radiation can trigger the development of skin cancers, including the deadly melanoma. I would also be concerned about exposing the eyes, since this could increase one’s risk of developing cataracts.

    About 5 percent of the population have undiagnosed abnormal DNA repair mechanism. When exposed to radiation, this can put them at a cancer risk hundreds of times greater than normal people.

    It also has been determined that when skin is next to certain metals, such as gold, the radiation dose is magnified 100-fold higher. What if you have a mole next to your gold jewelry? Will the radiation convert it to a melanoma? Deficiencies in certain vitamins can dramatically increase your sensitivity to radiation carcinogenesis, as can certain prescription medications.

    As for the assurances we have been given by such organization as the American College of Radiology, we must keep in mind that they assured us that the CT scans were safe and that the radiation was equal to one chest X-ray. Forty years later we learn that the dose is extremely high, it is thought to have caused cancer in a significant number of people, and the dose is actually equal to 1,000 chest X-rays.

    Based on these assurances, tens of thousands of children have been exposed to radiation doses from CT scanners, which will ruin the children's lives. I have two friends who were high-ranking Environmental Protection Agency scientists, and they assure me that in government safety agencies, politics most often override the scientists’ real concerns about such issues.

    This government shares House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s view when she urged passage of the Obamacare bill sight unseen — “Let’s just pass the bill, and we will find out what is in it later.”

    When the real effects of these scanners on health become known, Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano and the rest of the gang who insist the scanners are safe will be long gone.

  9. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirbinster View Post
    Maybe those "SAFE" scanners are not so safe afterall:

    Dr. Blaylock: Body Scanners More Dangerous Than Feds Admit

    Wednesday, November 24, 2010 9:58 AM

    By Dr. Russell Blaylock


    Dr. Russell Blaylock is a nationally recognized board-certified neurosurgeon, health practitioner, author, lecturer, and editor of The Blaylock Wellness Report.


    The growing outrage over the Transportation Security Administration’s new policy of backscatter scanning of airline passengers and “enhanced pat-downs” brings to mind these wise words from President Ronald Reagan: “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help you.’”

    So, what is all the concern really about — will these radiation scanners increase your risk of cancer or other diseases? A group of scientists and professors from the University of California at San Francisco voiced their concern to Obama’s science and technology adviser John Holdren in a well-stated letter back in April.

    The group included experts in radiation biology, biophysics, and imaging, who expressed “serious concerns” about the “dangerously high” dose of radiation to the skin.

    Radiation increases cancer risk by damaging the DNA and various components within the cells. Much of the damage is caused by high concentrations of free radicals generated by the radiation. Most scientists think that the most damaging radiation types are those that have high penetration, such as gamma-rays, but in fact, some of the most damaging radiation barely penetrates the skin.

    One of the main concerns is that most of the energy from the airport scanners is concentrated on the surface of the skin and a few millimeters into the skin. Some very radiation-sensitive tissues are close to the skin — such as the testes, eyes, and circulating blood cells in the skin.

    This is why defenders using such analogies as the dose being “1,000-times less than a chest X-ray” and “far less than what passengers are exposed to in-flight” are deceptive. Radiation damage depends on the volume of tissue exposed. Chest X-rays and gamma-radiation from outer space is diffused over the entire body so that the dose to the skin is extremely small. Of note, outer space radiation does increase cancer rates in passengers, pilots, and flight attendants.

    We also know that certain groups of people are at a much higher risk than others. These include babies, small children, pregnant women, the elderly, people with impaired immunity (those with HIV infection, cancer patients, people with immune deficiency diseases, and people with abnormal DNA repair mechanism, just to name a few).

    As we grow older, our DNA accumulates a considerable amount of unrepaired damage, and under such circumstances even low doses of radiation can trigger the development of skin cancers, including the deadly melanoma. I would also be concerned about exposing the eyes, since this could increase one’s risk of developing cataracts.

    About 5 percent of the population have undiagnosed abnormal DNA repair mechanism. When exposed to radiation, this can put them at a cancer risk hundreds of times greater than normal people.

    It also has been determined that when skin is next to certain metals, such as gold, the radiation dose is magnified 100-fold higher. What if you have a mole next to your gold jewelry? Will the radiation convert it to a melanoma? Deficiencies in certain vitamins can dramatically increase your sensitivity to radiation carcinogenesis, as can certain prescription medications.

    As for the assurances we have been given by such organization as the American College of Radiology, we must keep in mind that they assured us that the CT scans were safe and that the radiation was equal to one chest X-ray. Forty years later we learn that the dose is extremely high, it is thought to have caused cancer in a significant number of people, and the dose is actually equal to 1,000 chest X-rays.

    Based on these assurances, tens of thousands of children have been exposed to radiation doses from CT scanners, which will ruin the children's lives. I have two friends who were high-ranking Environmental Protection Agency scientists, and they assure me that in government safety agencies, politics most often override the scientists’ real concerns about such issues.

    This government shares House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s view when she urged passage of the Obamacare bill sight unseen — “Let’s just pass the bill, and we will find out what is in it later.”

    When the real effects of these scanners on health become known, Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano and the rest of the gang who insist the scanners are safe will be long gone.

    I am going to guess that if the scanners are not removed there will be medical lawsuits filed by frequent flyers and airline workers who have been forced to go thru them on a frequent basis.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  10. #62
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    I wonder if they would think me a troublemaker if I declined to take a walk through the scanner or get felt up but offered to drop my pants and bend over in front of them?

  11. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    I wonder if they would think me a troublemaker if I declined to take a walk through the scanner or get felt up but offered to drop my pants and bend over in front of them?
    There was a lady in the news Tuesday evening that wore a bikini under her overcoat... She even showed the news camera. She said she was going to take off her coat, then refuse the X-ray, then ask TSA if there was any way she could be hiding anything.

    I think Mr Obama and his pimp Napolitano (sp) have stubbed their toe seriously here... be interesting to see how this washes out.

    BTW: News today (Wednesday) Many higher level govt officials and congresscritters are exempt from TSA also.
    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20101124/D9JM7I381.html

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  12. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Many higher level govt officials and congresscritters are exempt from TSA also.
    I have heard politicians in the past had a problem keeping things in their pants. Maybe that is the reason for the exception.

  13. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    I have heard politicians in the past had a problem keeping things in their pants. Maybe that is the reason for the exception.
    Agree, there is an issue here...

    MeThinks there is something afoot... Why are the vogs (govt) exempting almost everyone except the stereotypical American citizen?
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    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

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