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Thread: 4th Amendment

  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by retired btc View Post
    Hmm I suggest you take another route there and becareful who you bud up with after all Hugh hasn't filled out his profile yet who knows where he is from what he does for a living , in fact why don't you ask him

    He may be a Patriot because of his babblings about TSA to you, but certainly not to me.
    Actually I have. We have emailed each other. Because of his job and location he is sensitive about his ID been revealed here and maybe causing him problems where he works.

    He could go for a professional status but he wants to keep anonymous. I have to disagree with him on that but everyone makes there own bed and I am not walking in his shoes. I don't agree with everything he does and vicesa versa but he is OK in my book. Cut him a little slack here.

    Now I have a real beef with PC in our government especially the TSA. They will go out of there way to work over an old lady or a serviceman and be extra polite to a radical Muslim in full Muslim garb. This type of BS has been reported too many times and makes me sick. That is my problem with them. I'll handle the scan but not the super PC way they run it. THank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Actually I have. We have emailed each other. Because of his job and location he is sensitive about his ID been revealed here and maybe causing him problems where he works.

    He could go for a professional status but he wants to keep anonymous. I have to disagree with him on that but everyone makes there own bed and I am not walking in his shoes. I don't agree with everything he does and vicesa versa but he is OK in my book. Cut him a little slack here.

    Now I have a real beef with PC in our government especially the TSA. They will go out of there way to work over an old lady or a serviceman and be extra polite to a radical Muslim in full Muslim garb. This type of BS has been reported too many times and makes me sick. That is my problem with them. I'll handle the scan but not the super PC way they run it. THank you very much
    Funny having logged over a dozen flights this yr I have yet to have a problem with any TSA agent or check point, and every service man and women I have seen in the various airports have been treated with nothing but respect.

    Frankly I look at it this way if he has to worry about his job for his political/religious beliefs he is under way more censureship there and if he wants to wave his flags of injustice that would be the place to start.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat. (President Theodore Roosevelt)

  3. #29
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    I am not interested in getting into the 'line of fire' on this thread... However I do have something to say:

    The goal of TSA is supposed to be safety for airplanes over US soil. If one analyzes the TSA's actions carefully, that goal is not evident in the behavior and attitude of the 'working stiffs' I see in the airport.

    I made over a dozen round-trips last year (2009), so I have some experience with this also. I found a lot of folks that were definitely in the 'peter principle' (a job beyond their mental/emotional/maturity level)... I also found a lot of folks that truly had an elitist attitude.... I also found folks that thought they were above the law. Now I also found a number of really good folks doing their job the best they could... but they were definitely the minority.

    Last time I checked, this constitution being argued over suggests (no it says in so many words) that ALL Americans get equal treatment unless they have a criminal record. (We can talk about whether non-citizens should have equal rights as citizens in another thread...personally I think not). When I see govt employees, pilots, flight attendants (sometimes), airline bosses, TSA employees, military, and a host of others getting to go around TSA... And even proposed muslim women in burks'a are exempt from pat-downs... well show me the equality here...

    Our country is falling apart at the seams because we are a bunch of primma-donna's expecting special treatment... yet all we can do is argue with each other over who gets a better deal than the other. Reminds me of a bunch of spoiled children...

    Get a grip guys/gals. We need to become ONE nation (united, rather than splintered);where everyone gets treated the same, and nobody expects special treatment... or these special interests are going to destroy it for everyone.

    I have seen it mentioned repeatedly, and I agree:
    The Muslims have already won: They have us living in fear so much we allow a tyrannical government to take away our freedoms; the very freedoms that made and continue to make this country great. Wake up folks...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

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  4. #30
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    I fly 40 weeks a year for a major HVAC manufacturer and have been doing so for several years. Therefore, I pass TSA checkpoints over 80 times a year.

    TSA often fails to use common sense. It was not so bad until the last few weeks when they totally lost all common sense. I have had my personal bad experiences with them and witnessed many others. TSA is out of control.

    We need to profile. Children, old ladies and white middle aged businessmen don't bomb aircraft. The previous much more limited search and screening was working just fine.

    The new invasive searches are not about safety. They serve a different purpose. To break down the public to accept more intrusion in our lives and accept clear violations of our rights on a regular basis.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  5. #31
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    Gonna do a minor hijack of this thread, not sure an apology is necessary if the dots get connected:

    Bush started TSA... we all knew back then it was not a good idea... Obummer carried it to levels some folks do not agree with...

    Lets look at a larger picture: Show me a president that has NOT trashed the constitution in modern times... (for discussion purposes, how about lets say 'modern times' is anyone us or our parents could have voted for).

    I did notice this morning lots of folks who's incomes are associated with air travel are speaking out against the proposed 'slow-down' at TSA Wednesday... I think folks have their attention...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  6. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Gonna do a minor hijack of this thread, not sure an apology is necessary if the dots get connected:

    Bush started TSA... we all knew back then it was not a good idea... Obummer carried it to levels some folks do not agree with...

    Lets look at a larger picture: Show me a president that has NOT trashed the constitution in modern times... (for discussion purposes, how about lets say 'modern times' is anyone us or our parents could have voted for).

    I did notice this morning lots of folks who's incomes are associated with air travel are speaking out against the proposed 'slow-down' at TSA Wednesday... I think folks have their attention...

    Actually there will not be that many regular business travelers flying this week. As one of them I like most of the others are at home during a major holiday week.

    I am in favor of breaking the back of the already ineffective and illegal TSA equivalent to the SS. It was working fairly well until recently when they lost the little common sense they still had.

    I agree that this began under Bush. Obama has taken government control to a new level. Resisting our government and pressuring the house and senate as well as getting others to realize what is going on is one of the rights of citizenship. In fact, such action is necessary in a democracy.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  7. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    Actually there will not be that many regular business travelers flying this week. As one of them I like most of the others are at home during a major holiday week.

    I am in favor of breaking the back of the already ineffective and illegal TSA equivalent to the SS. It was working fairly well until recently when they lost the little common sense they still had.

    I agree that this began under Bush. Obama has taken government control to a new level. Resisting our government and pressuring the house and senate as well as getting others to realize what is going on is one of the rights of citizenship. In fact, such action is necessary in a democracy.
    Oh, I thoroughly agree Hugh!

    I did a study years ago of the founding fathers... I did not realize how much they risked (and lost) to form this country. Many lost their fortunes, some lost their families, and a few were put to capital punishment.

    Imagine someone today that believed in freedom enough to risk it all so to say... We have become a nation of cry-babies... everyone wants it all, yet does not want to have to work (or struggle) to get it.

    If you want to see something inspirational, go see the movie 'Fair Game' the story of Valerie Plume. Stay with it to the end, it is worth it!

    We will end up the way Rome and many other great nations did if we do not get our head out and start fighting for what we believe in (if we have any beliefs that is)...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Oh, I thoroughly agree Hugh!

    I did a study years ago of the founding fathers... I did not realize how much they risked (and lost) to form this country. Many lost their fortunes, some lost their families, and a few were put to capital punishment.

    Imagine someone today that believed in freedom enough to risk it all so to say... We have become a nation of cry-babies... everyone wants it all, yet does not want to have to work (or struggle) to get it.

    If you want to see something inspirational, go see the movie 'Fair Game' the story of Valerie Plume. Stay with it to the end, it is worth it!

    We will end up the way Rome and many other great nations did if we do not get our head out and start fighting for what we believe in (if we have any beliefs that is)...
    Yes, we are pretty much on the same page GA. You took the time to read the founding fathers something we no longer teach in our schools.

    My wife and daughter are both public school teachers. They tell me that our school systems are not teaching American History for real. We now have generations of people who have never been taught the constitution, bill of rights or our history.

    These people are now in positions of government. Nancy P for example has no clue of American History or the background to the constitution. These people in charge of DHS and TSA are ignorant of the Bill Of Rights and Supreme Court decisions regarding search and seizures. Things have turned upsidedown legally but the ignorant just go along as sheeple.

    We are following the footsteps of Nazi Germany in the 1930s. A good book to read is "Defying Hitler". Our country today has a lot in common with the process that book describes.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gib's Son View Post
    When you purchase a ticket and enter that line you have given consent to be searched. You basically gave up your 4th amendment right. Next thing you know they will be searching you when you enter a football stadium.

    The thing is is that airports are privately owned. They are not government property (although some may?).

    The airports have the right to kick TSA out on their ear if they want as long as they hire a private security firm. I would hope airports would begin to explore this option.
    I don't buy that arguement. If that held then any business could simply violate lots of laws by stating when you enter our establishment you argree t give up a right - the law does not allow that. This entire TSA thing is illegal and ultimately once it goes through the courts it will be proven to be -- or they will be rewriting the constitution.

  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirbinster View Post
    I don't buy that arguement. If that held then any business could simply violate lots of laws by stating when you enter our establishment you argree t give up a right - the law does not allow that. This entire TSA thing is illegal and ultimately once it goes through the courts it will be proven to be -- or they will be rewriting the constitution.
    We will see. It's all about the term in the amendment "Unreasonable"
    Some probably thought taking fingerprints were unreasonable. Some thought taking a blood sample without consent was. After all it could be seen as testifying against yourself, The 5th. But they were seen as reasonable.
    Recent poll, I think yesterday, had 49% dems and 45% repub favor these measures. It seems the beginning of searches followed a warrant but we know the Gov doesn't no stinking warrants.
    With fear in an equation many will gladly forfeit their freedoms. Why not? It's not like they practise them anyway. Assembly, speech, press etc.
    Tracers work both ways.

  11. #37
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    Well the good news is if we keep giving all our rights away the terrorists will no longer want to attack us as we will be living under the same system as they have.

  12. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    Yes, we are pretty much on the same page GA. You took the time to read the founding fathers something we no longer teach in our schools.

    My wife and daughter are both public school teachers. They tell me that our school systems are not teaching American History for real. We now have generations of people who have never been taught the constitution, bill of rights or our history.

    These people are now in positions of government. Nancy P for example has no clue of American History or the background to the constitution. These people in charge of DHS and TSA are ignorant of the Bill Of Rights and Supreme Court decisions regarding search and seizures. Things have turned upsidedown legally but the ignorant just go along as sheeple.

    We are following the footsteps of Nazi Germany in the 1930s. A good book to read is "Defying Hitler". Our country today has a lot in common with the process that book describes.
    That is because the school system are unabashedly liberal, little johnny should grow up to be a good drone and never, ever have an opinion other than the one provided.

    Btc needs to get a clue, the reason we have these right is not negated by the fact that some fought for them, it is BECAUSE some fought for them that we have them.
    Evidently btc only wants us to have the rights he decides we should have, or the opinion he decides we should hold, more liberal balderdash.
    You sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim.

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by zachhvac View Post
    That is because the school system are unabashedly liberal, little johnny should grow up to be a good drone and never, ever have an opinion other than the one provided.

    Btc needs to get a clue, the reason we have these right is not negated by the fact that some fought for them, it is BECAUSE some fought for them that we have them.
    Evidently btc only wants us to have the rights he decides we should have, or the opinion he decides we should hold, more liberal balderdash.
    Lol another band wagon jumber and yep your right some of us have actual fought for these rights you hold so dear , hmm which branch did you serve in ?

    P.S. heres a clue for you Zach, just because we are all not constitutional fundamentalist, doesn't make us all Liberal's.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat. (President Theodore Roosevelt)

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