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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    1,874
    Just got off the phone with a guy who was grandfathered in as an HVAC contractor.
    He did a job that was redflgged by the inspector for not having a flue liner for the water heater in a clay lined chimney, also he put a union inside the furnace cabnit, at the gas valve. And 2 small issues outside.

    He said that he's never seen a code book, and that having a union inside the furnace is just fine, the inspector is picking on him. Here the book says no unions inside the cabnit.

    I can't believe he thinks that,that should be fine.
    He wants the union there so if he ever has to change the valve he only has to loosen a small portion of the gas line.

    The flue is an 8" clay tile lined chimney, It used to have the old furnace and the water heater, now it's just the water heater. New 90% unit vents side wall.
    So now he's mad, well maybe if he had stayed awake at the continuing education classes, or even knew the codes to start with. He would have done a better job.

    Unbelieveable,

    " I'm wrong but it's your fault "
    If you try to fail, and succeed.
    Which have you done ?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    1,333
    unions inside units are common. I dont know the code in ohio, it might not be allowed there

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Posts
    3,112
    Is this a commercial job or multi unit job? If it is a single famile home, the State of Ohio doesn't require the contractor to be licensed. Only need a license if a multi( more than 4) famile unit or commercial instalation. The sad thing is, when Ohio grandfathered a lot of these " old timers" they didn't do any one a favor. Most of these guys couldn't pass the test for a state license if they had to.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    49
    Unions in the cabinet are common here in sc never had a problem with inspectors. I put them in the cabinet on furnaces and gaspacks close to the gas valve. I also put a extra union outside the gaspack(Trane) after the gas shutoff this makes it easier on the service tech if he has to change a GV or possible orphice.
    All else fails, try the S.W.A.G

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    1,874
    Our county requires a state license in order to register.
    Most are going that route.

    It states in the Ohio code No unions in the cabnit

    His whole demenor was like "i can't believe this guy turned me down"
    almost like he's never been turned down before,Or if he has he has been able BS his way through it.

    I just laughed and knod my head,
    If you try to fail, and succeed.
    Which have you done ?



  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,462
    National Fuel Gas Code says: No unions in the cabinet. It is not a local thing, it is National. However not all jurisdictions adhere to the national code nor inforce the codes they have. Most manufactuers also say not unions in the cabinent so you may start to see more resistance to it.
    If all else fails....Try reading the directions!

    Tell it like it is and let the chips fall where they may.

    Any views or opinions stated here are strictly my own.


  7. #7
    Neither of those things sound like they will make the world explode......he may know a lot more than you think he does, if he has been successfully doing this for a long time I wouldn't laugh at him over minor issues. Why do you care about that guy when there are many other guys duct taping furnaces together?
    Hey cockroach, don't bug me!

    www.AskTheDiceman.com

    www.TheColdConspiracy.com

    www.Pennwood-HVAC.Com

    Bring Em Home....

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,666
    Some gas appliances have a burner tray that slides out. If not for a union on these you would have to cut the gas pipe with a sawzall.
    I wonder what the inspector would say about that procedure?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    East Stroudsburg, PA
    Posts
    13,215
    Well, every single I&O manual that I've seen says to install a union after the shutoff, before it enters the cabinet.

    Probably 75% of the ones in America are inside the cabinet, though. A surprisingly very small amount of these explode.

    As far as the flue liner, again, a large percentage of this type of thing go into old, unlined flues, and a very small amount of people die from it.

    IMO, there are bigger fish to fry than an old man close to retirement who wants to install his unions inside a cabinet, or half abandon an old chimney. I'd worry more that he has probably never checked temp rise in his life, or doesn't know the difference between CO and CO2, than where he puts his unions.


    BUT, if the inspector has time on his hands, I'd tell him that they sell 12" nipples these days...

  10. #10
    You can learn a lot from old guys, about the biz, about making money and about life.
    I'm sure there are many younger dudes who know it all when it comes to the hvac business, yep, they know it all.
    Hey cockroach, don't bug me!

    www.AskTheDiceman.com

    www.TheColdConspiracy.com

    www.Pennwood-HVAC.Com

    Bring Em Home....

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    1,874
    Dice, I'm not bust'n this guy's chops for how he chooses to install his units. I couldn't care less how he does it, how you do it, or anyone else.

    I didn't see why he was getting bent out of shape for being told that he has to change some things.
    The job was in another city, that he doesn't work in to often. So they look at things differently there.
    He said he's never seen a code book, But he gets mad when a guy inspecting his work goes by the book.

    This guy is not an old timer he's 45yrs old, But went out on his own before testing became a must.
    He has the outlook as though he is the only one who does it right anyway, and when someone turns him down. They are just picking on him.

    I think it's funny he gets upset.
    I get told to change something I just go do it how they want, You can't always win so it's easier to just do it.
    Although I have won on some points with them.
    You have to pick your battles.

    [Edited by Toolpusher on 01-14-2005 at 11:56 AM]
    If you try to fail, and succeed.
    Which have you done ?



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    17,598
    No unions allowed in the cabinet here in Mich. and I always run a liner kit unless its a metal chimney for an 80%er and water heater.
    "The road to Hell is paved with progressive policies."

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    1,214
    I would take an "old dude's" reccommendation everytime over an engineer because he has the real world practical experience...oh and by tthe way its Grandfathered not GRANGFATHERED" YOU MAKE IT SOUND LIKE THE OLD GUY HAS GANGREEN...


    Better question is how many installs has he done like this and how far back was the earliest one he did like that ( maybe before you were born?)

    and then the next question would be how many homes have burned down as the result of his install or occupants of the homes died from CO poisoning as a result of his installs?

    If the answers to these questions are none despite what your little book says on pg ...,parageph c subsection 28:1-3 etc the man has experience and history of successful installs which of course the book never takes that into account just "this is the wAy it has to be" because some people needed to create jobs for themselves writing the codes and enforcing them.

    Because I have seen many installs too code but mechanically the installs were crap txv bulbs hanging inside the ahu attached to nothing etc....
    I bet that old man's "code violation" install would put to shame some of this Mc Construction companies trying to hammmer out 2 homes a day in a development tract.
    thehumid1-------I live in NJ, a state where it's free to come in but you have to pay to leave!

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