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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    2,868
    I had a call today that wanted me to remove two warm morning stoves and install three ventless heaters. I told them of the dangers involved with doing this but their reply was that the guy next door has done it. There are alot of older homes in the towns near me with lower income people that are being convinced that these ventless heaters are the way to go. We have propane companies, lumber yards, Westlakes, and Orshlens selling these to people and they have no idea of the dangers. They replace the old warm mornings or wall heaters and start saving money. Does anyone else see this problem? Its just a matter of time before one of these fail to detect CO and kill someone or a family. I do not sell or install these but some companies near me do. I think they all have a saftey built into them but im not sure.(I hope so)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    angola indiana
    Posts
    528

    ventless heaters

    Don't. Don't sell them, don't install them, don't service them. They are not ventless. They are instead venting into the air that they breath. Why would anyone turn their house into a chimney?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Bennington, Vermont U.S.A.
    Posts
    13,864
    Everyone of them that I have seen includes in the instructions something to the effect of "leave a window open"

    Shouldn't that tell them something???? Some states have laws against the sale of ventless gas heaters.

  4. #4

    Talking

    2000 uniform mechanical code section 916.3 states"unvented fuel-burning room heaters shall not be installed,used, maintained,or permitted to exist in a groupI or R(residential)occupancy,nor shall an unvented heater be installed in any building,whether as a new or as a replacementinstallation,unless permitted by this section."in short;these things are illegal in most of the country in residences because they kill people.although i hear the darwin society is looking for candidates for 2005.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    368
    windtunnel most of the country is not on the UMC but on the ICC Codes. The IFGC, IMC, IRC all allow these installed under guidelines in the Code. While I dislike the useage I am forced to allow these but I also go by the strictest of the Manufacturers guidelines on installation, ie: outside air vent kits to the room etc.
    Vern P: 2003 MBC,MRC,IFGC,IFC
    An HVAC-Talk Michigan Chapter Mechanical Inspector, Jurisdiction-Ann Arbor

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Grottoes VA
    Posts
    5,856
    In ou area a house cannot be sold with these type of heaters or wood stoves as the sole source of heat. You must have a "central" type of heating system in the house.

    I do install these in basements and garages. I would never install one in a "living" area.
    Karst means cave. So, I search for caves.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    2,868
    These houses are in small towns with a population of less than 5000 and there is no code enforcement. All I have to do in these towns is buy a city lic. once a year for from 10 to 40 dollars a year. There are no permits required and nobody to tell these people what they are doing is dangerous. What makes it worse is the fact that there are power outages during ice storms and homes maybe without power for up to a week and they buy these just incase and then can't resist the idea of saving money using them full time.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Slacking off right now
    Posts
    7,546
    They are completly Illegal in Canada period and I think they should be illegal in the US too
    lets put them in all the politicians homes for awhile then you would see them outlawed
    www.vetopropac.com - The best tool bags on the market - The offical tool bag of choice by techs everywhere

    Arguing with some people is like wrestling a pig - eventually you realise the pig actually enjoys it

    Gonads serve a useful purpose but are no substitute for brains

  9. #9
    i read this in the paper two days ago, this guy had bought a set of gas logs for his home. the pilot light went out. if he hadnt had a carbon monoxide detector. his whole family would have died. those so- called ventless heaters do put out allot of heat but they're not safe.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Grottoes VA
    Posts
    5,856
    Something fishy here. How would the pilot going out cause CO?
    Karst means cave. So, I search for caves.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Derby City
    Posts
    3,955
    When it comes to these type appliances I try to look at it logically, although that's not always easy to do. Two words jump out: "gas" and "ventless" These two terms are not mutually exclusive of one another. When shopping for a fireplace for my elderly parents the sales rep promoted the "ventless" system very strongly. My concern was the use of an "oxygen depletion switch." What that meant was just before you passed out, it would shut off the fireplace! Now I may be oversimplifying, but like an earlier comment, why would you want to utilize your living space as part of the flue? The fact that the majority of areas prohibit the installation and use of these should account for something. Trane: the fact that you have to make an inquiry about the safety and use of these should be enough for you to avoid furnishing and installing them. Think of all the occurances of CO poisoning with "acceptable" installations and equipment. Why would you want to take a chance with something that is "borderline?" Oh yeah, when I asked the sales person what happens if the oxygen depletion switch fails, they did not have an answer, but I could quickly picture the worse case scenario. Good practice: NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, install a system, equipment, or leave a system or piece of equipment operating in someone's home that you wouldn't put in your own child's NURSERY!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    1,661
    I say market them, but only to people in the "hood." Hell, I say put 2 or 3 in every house that is in every "Hood" in the united states of america. Bye bye gangstaz!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    2,868
    Originally posted by irishmist
    When it comes to these type appliances I try to look at it logically, although that's not always easy to do. Two words jump out: "gas" and "ventless" These two terms are not mutually exclusive of one another. When shopping for a fireplace for my elderly parents the sales rep promoted the "ventless" system very strongly. My concern was the use of an "oxygen depletion switch." What that meant was just before you passed out, it would shut off the fireplace! Now I may be oversimplifying, but like an earlier comment, why would you want to utilize your living space as part of the flue? The fact that the majority of areas prohibit the installation and use of these should account for something. Trane: the fact that you have to make an inquiry about the safety and use of these should be enough for you to avoid furnishing and installing them. Think of all the occurances of CO poisoning with "acceptable" installations and equipment. Why would you want to take a chance with something that is "borderline?" Oh yeah, when I asked the sales person what happens if the oxygen depletion switch fails, they did not have an answer, but I could quickly picture the worse case scenario. Good practice: NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, install a system, equipment, or leave a system or piece of equipment operating in someone's home that you wouldn't put in your own child's NURSERY!
    Read my my post that started this thread and you will see that I agree with you and did not ask about their saftey but am worried that this is going to be a big problem in years to come if the sensors fail. You will also see that I don't sell, install, or recommend them.

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