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  1. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by klove View Post
    You've made the incorrect assumption that I don't read and study God's Word. As I said, any time you'd like to discuss other passages of scripture within their context of what was being said or taught, feel free to start another thread. Otherwise, it's not about what you or I want to hear, but about the truth that the Word reveals to us. Apparently this truth has hit a sore spot with you. Why?
    No it hasn't. the sore spot is how many people that call themselves Christian read only what they want to read in the Bible. Then take the fact that these so called christians ignore what Christ say's about wage and taxes.

  2. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Enough with the vague inuendos and cryptic claims. If you are going to quote a text such as the Bible, then quote it. At best, you may be paraphrasing some line from scripture. Please post the content of the source you are referencing. Elsewise, your posts are nothing but your rambling claims.
    RoBo: After reading many of your posts concerning the Bible and it's truth's, I can honestly say that you were one of the last folks that I would have expected would blindside me or anyone else with a comment like that. Apparently, I was mistaken. Please feel free to correct me any time that I make such a blatant error. I'm always open to be castigated by those that have proven themselves to be much wiser than my poor ol' uneducated hick self. An' you know how us rednecks are - no pavement, no shoes, and 6th grade education. We just ramble an' talk to hear ourselves make a noise, it don't really have no meanin'.......

    For your reading pleasure, ref: (NIV) 2 Thessalonians 3:6-14 for the entire passage concerning the warning against idleness. Verse 10 is the focal point: "For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." (If the vaguery is still a bit much, you may want to go to somewhere such as E-Sword.com and you can get the same passage from any of the many different english language translations that are available, and I believe the majority, if not all, of the foreign language translations. I may be mistaken, but I think they have the original Hebrew and Greek in there somewhere, for those of you who are true biblical scholars.) At best, there it is.

    printer: As long as you make reference to the return of Christ by using the terminology for closing a bar, maybe it's a good thing that something caused you to stop and think about it . No man knows the day or the hour, not the angels in Heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father, so be alert, and be ready. (Sorry, RoBo -that's not a straight quote, but it's in Mark 13:32-33.)

    jim: The whole Church that was instituted by Christ was awaiting His return then, just as now. I'm having a little trouble understanding if you agree or disagree with what's been stated, or you're just trying to give the background on the scripture. As far as some of the folks in Thessalonica not being the same as me (in this instance, some of them wanting to be subsidized by the working folks so that they didn't have to do anything but stir the pot), that's the whole point of the lesson in that passage. Stop rockin' the boat and help paddle, you might say. If you're workin' hard every day to make things better, you'll be too tired to cause trouble. (All "you's" are 3rd person, by the way.) That's all I'm saying. Correctly stated by you, there are many places that speak of charity within the Bible, but that charity is directed towards those that can't, not those that won't.

  3. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmanko View Post
    No it hasn't. the sore spot is how many people that call themselves Christian read only what they want to read in the Bible. Then take the fact that these so called christians ignore what Christ say's about wage and taxes.
    The Bible has many parallels, and never contradicts itself. One of the parallels here is that we hear to render unto Ceaser (hope I spelled that right) what is Ceaser's, and unto God what is God's. I don't disagree with that at all, and I totally agree with the 13th chapter of Romans concerning government. God's word also says to work if you can or go hungry. What's happening within our tax system is the government is taking what we render unto Ceaser and using a goodly portion of it to feed those too worthless to work. That's a contradiction by men in government of Biblical teaching.

    I have no issue with caring for the needy. I'm a member of the benevolence committee at one of our local churches, and nothing makes you feel better than to go in the service of the Lord and help someone that truly needs help, whether with money, time, or stuff. Nothing can make me angrier than to show up at someone's house to give them money after they've called crying for help to pay their power bill so their kids can have light, cooked food, and baths, and that person shows up at the door at 10 am on Saturday morning in their underwear with a beer in their hand and a cigarette hanging out of their mouth.

  4. #95
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    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by klove View Post
    RoBo: After reading many of your posts concerning the Bible and it's truth's, I can honestly say that you were one of the last folks that I would have expected would blindside me or anyone else with a comment like that. Apparently, I was mistaken. Please feel free to correct me any time that I make such a blatant error. I'm always open to be castigated by those that have proven themselves to be much wiser than my poor ol' uneducated hick self. An' you know how us rednecks are - no pavement, no shoes, and 6th grade education. We just ramble an' talk to hear ourselves make a noise, it don't really have no meanin'.......

    For your reading pleasure, ref: (NIV) 2 Thessalonians 3:6-14 for the entire passage concerning the warning against idleness. Verse 10 is the focal point: "For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." (If the vaguery is still a bit much, you may want to go to somewhere such as E-Sword.com and you can get the same passage from any of the many different english language translations that are available, and I believe the majority, if not all, of the foreign language translations. I may be mistaken, but I think they have the original Hebrew and Greek in there somewhere, for those of you who are true biblical scholars.) At best, there it is.

    printer: As long as you make reference to the return of Christ by using the terminology for closing a bar, maybe it's a good thing that something caused you to stop and think about it . No man knows the day or the hour, not the angels in Heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father, so be alert, and be ready. (Sorry, RoBo -that's not a straight quote, but it's in Mark 13:32-33.)

    jim: The whole Church that was instituted by Christ was awaiting His return then, just as now. I'm having a little trouble understanding if you agree or disagree with what's been stated, or you're just trying to give the background on the scripture. As far as some of the folks in Thessalonica not being the same as me (in this instance, some of them wanting to be subsidized by the working folks so that they didn't have to do anything but stir the pot), that's the whole point of the lesson in that passage. Stop rockin' the boat and help paddle, you might say. If you're workin' hard every day to make things better, you'll be too tired to cause trouble. (All "you's" are 3rd person, by the way.) That's all I'm saying. Correctly stated by you, there are many places that speak of charity within the Bible, but that charity is directed towards those that can't, not those that won't.
    My apologies for being so brash. I have been under a bit of stress lately and reacted to only one post without the benefit of understanding the lead up to that post.

    I understand what you are saying with your quoting Paul's letter to the Thessalonians who were taking advantage of the church there. That does not, however, depict God's overall view of Christians charitability. I refer you to Jesus's telling us to feed a man who is hungry for food before attempting to feed that man the love of God.

    It appears that many in Thessalonica were under the impression that the end of times was very near and that Jesus was going to come to take them away to the Father's house very soon. With that in mind, these misguided folk stopped working and just sat around waiting for the rapture. Sort of like hippies did on land in California that someone left to God. After having trashed the land, those hippies were evicted and California was forced to make a law that actually forbids God (or anyone who cannot physically appear) to own land in California.

    Much of the theme of the New Testament is how God takes care of His creations, not that God demands work from His creations or else they will starve.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  5. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by klove View Post
    The Bible has many parallels, and never contradicts itself. One of the parallels here is that we hear to render unto Ceaser (hope I spelled that right) what is Ceaser's, and unto God what is God's. I don't disagree with that at all, and I totally agree with the 13th chapter of Romans concerning government. God's word also says to work if you can or go hungry. What's happening within our tax system is the government is taking what we render unto Ceaser and using a goodly portion of it to feed those too worthless to work. That's a contradiction by men in government of Biblical teaching.

    I have no issue with caring for the needy. I'm a member of the benevolence committee at one of our local churches, and nothing makes you feel better than to go in the service of the Lord and help someone that truly needs help, whether with money, time, or stuff. Nothing can make me angrier than to show up at someone's house to give them money after they've called crying for help to pay their power bill so their kids can have light, cooked food, and baths, and that person shows up at the door at 10 am on Saturday morning in their underwear with a beer in their hand and a cigarette hanging out of their mouth.
    I agree that government should not be replacing God in the role of benevelence. That is what politicians are doing when they create socialist divisions of government. In order for socialism to work, there must be a social aspect. With government controlling socialist programs, there is no actual social aspect and you are left with men playing the role of gods.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  6. #97
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    Dec 2008
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    Dixiana, AL
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    My apologies for being so brash. I have been under a bit of stress lately and reacted to only one post without the benefit of understanding the lead up to that post.

    I understand what you are saying with your quoting Paul's letter to the Thessalonians who were taking advantage of the church there. That does not, however, depict God's overall view of Christians charitability. I refer you to Jesus's telling us to feed a man who is hungry for food before attempting to feed that man the love of God.

    It appears that many in Thessalonica were under the impression that the end of times was very near and that Jesus was going to come to take them away to the Father's house very soon. With that in mind, these misguided folk stopped working and just sat around waiting for the rapture. Sort of like hippies did on land in California that someone left to God. After having trashed the land, those hippies were evicted and California was forced to make a law that actually forbids God (or anyone who cannot physically appear) to own land in California.

    Much of the theme of the New Testament is how God takes care of His creations, not that God demands work from His creations or else they will starve.
    Apology accepted and appreciated. Hope whatever is causing the undue hardship smooths out quickly.

    The main thing that is stressed in the passage from Thessalonians though is not why they were layed up sorry, but the fact that they were laid up sorry at all. There are many contextual lessons to be learned from any given passage of scripture without having to look at the circumstances that created the situation, just as many lessons require complete objective knowledge of the circumstances within that same passage. I believe that this is one of the former. There was one parable in particular that Jesus gave, telling about some that were ready and some that were asleep when they should have been ready, and you know who was left behind. That's not speaking about working to make a living, obviously, but it's one of those parallels that tells us to be about the business the Father has laid out for us - be it spiritual or secular (in that case specifically, spiritual).

    Per another of my recent posts in this thread, I have no issue with feeding a hungry man that truly needs to be fed. I think we're all in agreement that there is a place for charitable acts, it's just that in the context of this conversation, those charitable acts are being misplaced and misused by those that we have entrusted with the leadership of our country. I believe that it's being a poor steward of what God has given me to be continually charitable to unrepentant drug users, drunks, slackers, single mothers whose next mistake was to learn that the more babies they birthed, the more money they would be given, etc., etc. There are those in this world killing themselves to make a positive difference that could use some help that I can't give because some jerkwad (pick one...) in our government is busy promising to give other people from the aforementioned list my money.

    As far as God demanding work, if we are being obedient children and servants, He tells us in Matthew 6:33 that He will take care of our every need. But if we are being obedient, we won't be laying around expecting someone else to foot our bills (another of those neat parallel thingy's). I'm thankful that I live under grace and not the law, but even though our sins are paid for and thus our greatest need is a need no longer if we choose to believe, we still have to live with the consequences of our sin and the sin of a fallen world. Because of that fall, God Himself decreed that man will earn his living by the sweat of his brow, and that's pure Old Testament. In a lot of ways, He takes care of us by giving us something to keep us busy and out of trouble. Apparently, there's a lot of folks that don't want to be taken care of. My mama raised us on her favorite piece of philosophy - "It's a blessing from God to be able to work". I couldn't agree more.

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