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  1. #66
    Originally posted by pjs


    Dice lives in Pittsburg and he's an expert HVAC guy so he says & and a known B.S. artist. He'll fit right in

    I think he would make a perfect Professional witness and he's relativeley cheap only $175 per hour.


    [/B]
    He already owes me that just from my post, and soon as my phone rings, so does the money meter, like in a taxi cab only I don't wear a turban and I speak english.
    Hey cockroach, don't bug me! ©

    www.AskTheDiceman.com

    www.TheColdConspiracy.com

    www.Pennwood-HVAC.Com

    Bring Em Home....

  2. #67
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Howell, Michigan
    Posts
    16,173
    In Michigan you have to have an external filter rack for an installation to pass inspection.

    They don't want HO's removing the doors.

  3. #68
    That's how they all used to be, inspection or no.

    Hey cockroach, don't bug me! ©

    www.AskTheDiceman.com

    www.TheColdConspiracy.com

    www.Pennwood-HVAC.Com

    Bring Em Home....

  4. #69
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Posts
    454
    Originally posted by swat
    Not to make light of the subject but how interesting would it be if all of this was fictional and made up just to get us talking as in YHBT. Trolled.

    I doubt it is a troller but still look at the responce.
    If it's a troll, the troll is either swiping identity, or VERY elaborate.

    http://www.peircelaw.com/

    And go easy on the engineer cracks. The poor bastard is AN ENGINEER AND A LAWYER.

    Eric K.

    {an engineer engaged to a lawyer}
    Air by Design

    989-596-0133

    airbydesign <@> gmail.com

  5. #70
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    2,868
    We use AC-1 filters on all new homes and offer them on change outs. If they don't want the AC-1 we always put a return air drop in with a filter slot. If you make it easier for them to change the filter it seems to get done more often.

  6. #71
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Howell, Michigan
    Posts
    16,173
    Originally posted by Diceman
    That's how they all used to be, inspection or no.

    Diceman,

    Not around here!!

  7. #72
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Waco, Texas, USA
    Posts
    6,153
    Originally posted by swat
    Not to make light of the subject but how interesting would it be if all of this was fictional and made up just to get us talking as in YHBT. Trolled.

    I doubt it is a troller but still look at the responce.
    Nope not a troller, I called his office. He is legit.
    "And remember my sentimental friend......that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others" - Wizard of Oz.

  8. #73
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Colorado flatland native
    Posts
    15,067
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by jultzya

    [ The deceased may have simply reached into the blower compartment grabbed for the filter, brushed against a bare hot wire and that was all it took!

    'specially if it was one of those kinds where the motor had been replaced by an HO and the capacitor was taped to the wires.......... I hit one like that in an old condensor. Melted holes in my hand where the capacitor contacts were.....
    My doctor gave me six months to live, but when I couldn't pay the bill he gave me six months more.
    Walter Matthau

  9. #74
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Waco, Texas, USA
    Posts
    6,153
    This is the furnace that the circuit board is right there in front of god and everybody. He could have bumped it with a metal filter frame.
    "And remember my sentimental friend......that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others" - Wizard of Oz.

  10. #75
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Bemidji, Mn
    Posts
    3,573
    We really need more details. Model/serial Shocked in the hand, back hand, where from, circuit board, door switch, what... If this is on the new Goodman design, we should know asap.. Sounds like an older version though. If that switch kept going out it probly had low voltage accross it causing his amps, overheating.. Not fixed, so it was bypassed. Not good...
    You picked a fine time to leave me loose wheel...

    http://rapalaguy.spaces.live.com/

  11. #76
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Posts
    3,112
    Once again we manage to show our asses as professionals. When a legitimate question is ask, we immediately go on the defensive. Is that because you have by-passed a door switch your self sometime in the past and now feel guilty about it? I'll provide some generic explanations and hope this helps you understand a little. Most manufactureres consider the door switch as a safety shut off. Carrier calls the door switch a "Blower access panel safety interlock switch." They also call it a "Blower door safety switch." York Internation calls the switch a ""blower door safety switch' which protects the consumer during filter cleaning. Rheem states in their installation instructions , under a warning symbol, that the furnace is equiped with a blower door safety switch. They go on to state this switch must not be disabled. Failure to follow the warning could result in electrical shock, personal injury or death. Rheem continues under the maintenace section by stateing firstly that main power must be disconnected before attempting any maintenance. Failure to do so can cause electrical shock resulting in personal injury or death. I can't say what other manufacturers state because I don't have access to their literature this evening. Careless act resulting in death.

  12. #77
    Originally posted by trane
    Jultzya, I doubt that you can teach me anything on this subject, but let me see if I understand what you are saying. You think he could be killed just brushing against a hot wire as long as he was grounded. You can't touch a hot wire long enough to kill you unless you touch it with an open hand. Current is what kills you not voltage.
    Yes, he or anyone else can be killed or seriously injured if brushing up against a hot wire!

    Lets say that you have the door off the unit, then put one hand on the ledge and reach into the blower compartment to grab the filter for removal and brush/touch a bare hot leg...at that time the voltage is telling your muscles to contract, thereby grabbing the unit with the hand on the ledge and the hot has the connection at the bare wire.
    (this can toast you!)

    Or better yet, he has his hand on the same ledge then grabs a bare wire in the other hand (on accident) and this makes him grab the unit and allows the current to go in one arm and out the other...straight threw his heart!

    The learning comment was for everyone, not really directed to you personally.

  13. #78
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    368
    BBB, in Michigan and I'm sure most places prefer the filter on the external side of the furnace. I can't find a section of the code stating this is a must but maybe I just missed it. If you can point to a section I'd appreciate it. All I can go by is Mfr. installation instructions that state its required to have it.

    Back to main topic;
    Lets give Bob the benifit here, he is a professional looking for some answers. Bob posted a question and did a follow up. What has happened here, as Bob has stated, a person was fried! Apparently by the defective blower door switch. We only know this since Bob told us this. Do any of us know these switches fail frequently? All of us do. Should it be bypassed? NOOOOOOOOOO!!! If indeed this is the reason for the electrocution then the person that did the bypass should have known better or at least as a precaution put a sign of some kind on the unit that this is a temporary condition that is going to be fixed and not to remove the door period, and he should have informed the occupant as well.
    We have no way of knowing who did this. Bob states the Co. told them it was bypassed, shame on that company (my opinion). The code does address certain areas of practice on service and when to shut down or do a temporarilly repair, then again it depends on the code in force here. You don't leave a unit in this condition forever. We don't know how long this furnace was in service either. There are to many variables to give a proper, well thought out answer to this inquiry.
    Bob if you want straight nuts and bolts answers call me, but I need nuts and bolt answers also.

    Vern P. 248-343-8830
    Vern P: 2003 MBC,MRC,IFGC,IFC
    An HVAC-Talk Michigan Chapter Mechanical Inspector, Jurisdiction-Ann Arbor

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