Page 14 of 14 FirstFirst ... 47891011121314
Results 170 to 175 of 175
  1. #170
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    1,214
    HEY svtti123:

    "Remember above approximately 10ma current this is all involuntary . ..... "

    Okay this could be interesting lets hear about voluntary electrocutions.....


    "The difference between throw off and let go ,may be a matter of body position ...."

    posibly the two instances I am speaking about the one my hands hands were not holding the conductor of electricty

    But you said may be does that mean it is just a theory?

    You almost are making me think about buying rubber gloves.

    [Edited by thehumid1 on 01-10-2005 at 04:33 AM]
    thehumid1-------I live in NJ, a state where it's free to come in but you have to pay to leave!

  2. #171
    LEATHER (not rubber) gloves for electricity protection!!

  3. #172
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    21

    Okay this could be interesting lets hear about voluntary electrocutions.....


    ok thehumid1 here goes

    Resistance is Futile

    1999 Darwin Award Nominee
    Unconfirmed by Darwin
    (1999) A US Navy safety publication describes injuries incurred while doing don't's. One page described the fate of a sailor playing with a multimeter in an unauthorized manner. He was curious about the resistance level of the human body. He had a Simpson 260 multimeter, a small unit powered by a 9-volt battery. That may not seem powerful enough to be dangerous… but it can be deadly in the wrong hands.

    The sailor took a probe in each hand to measure his bodily resistance from thumb to thumb. But the probes had sharp tips, and in his excitement he pressed his thumbs hard enough against the probes to break the skin. Once the salty conducting fluid known as blood was available, the current from the multimeter travelled right across the sailor's heart, disrupting the electrical regulation of his heartbeat. He died before he could record his Ohms.

    The lesson? The Navy issues very few objects which are designed to be stuck into the human body.

    August 2000 Dan Wilson elaborates:


    I'm a former Navy petty officer, enlisted for six years as an electrician aboard a US Submarine. I got a lot of training. This story was used frequently during my training in the US Navy as an example of what can happen when procedures and safety measures are not followed. I considered the story an urban legend until I found the incident report referenced in the official Navy electrical safety guidelines. I now know it is true.

    The actual event is slightly different than described above, and even more deserving of a Darwin award. This sailor stuck the sharpened ends of the probes through his thumbs intentionally. You see, he had just taken a course that taught a critical concept called "internal resistance."

    Internal resistance is resistance to electrical power flow that exists inside any power source. It causes the terminal voltage to drop when load (current) increases. You can demonstrate this concept, if you're careful, by monitoring your car battery's terminal voltage, while someone starts up the engine. The reading will be ~13 volts while the engine is off, but during the period where the starter is cranking it will drop to 8-9 volts. The voltage drop is due to the internal resistance of the battery.

    This sailor, like all other electricians in training, had already been through a safety class in which one of the excercises is to measure your body's resistance by simply holding the probes between your fingertips. (Most people read 500Kohms to 2Mohms.) Evidently, adding information from the internal resistance class, this sailor wanted to determine his own body's "internal resistance.". So he intentionally pushed the sharpened probe tips through the skin to elimate the rather high skin resistance and get only the "internal resistance". This, of course, caused his death.

    How, you might ask, with only a 9V battery? Easy. One of the "rules of thumb" that the Navy teaches is the 1-10-100 rule of current. This rule states that 1mA of current through the human body can be felt, 10mA of current is sufficient to make muscles contract to the point where you cannot let go of a power source, and 100mA is sufficient to stop the heart. Let's look at Ohm's law. Ohm's law (for DC systems - I will not discuss AC here) is written as E=IR, where E is voltage in volts, I is current in Amps, and R is resistance in Ohms.

    When we did the experiment in the electrical safety class to determine our body's resistance, we found a resistance of 500K Ohms. Using 9V and 500K Ohms in the equation, we come up with a current of 18 microAmps, below the "feel" threshold of 1mA. However, removing the insulation of skin from our curious sailor here, the resistance through the very good conducting electrolytes of the body is sharply lower. Around 100 ohms, in fact, resulting in a current of 90mA - sufficient to stop our sailor's heart and kill him.

    As my electrical safety instructor said, "The reason we now have to teach the electrical safety course to all electricians at least twice per year is because some joe was bright enough to be the one person in the world who could figure out how to kill himself with a 9V battery."

    DarwinAwards.com © 1994 - 2004
    Submitted by: Brian Lallatin
    Enhanced by: Dan Wilson
    References: US Navy Safety Publications

    svtti123

  4. #173
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    956
    Originally posted by toddzillag
    any possibility that filter he was changing could have been an electronic air cleaner that he instead was cleaning? and as far as the bypassed switch, could it have been on the air cleaner (hardwired?)? i have never had it happen, but have heard one of those can knock you flat.
    Dislocated my shoulder when I hit with the back of my hand, I'll tell you it tingles

  5. #174
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    1,214

    Re: Okay this could be interesting lets hear about voluntary electrocutions.....

    Originally posted by svtti123

    ok thehumid1 here goes

    Resistance is Futile

    1999 Darwin Award Nominee
    Unconfirmed by Darwin
    (1999) A US Navy safety publication describes injuries incurred while doing don't's. One page described the fate of a sailor playing with a multimeter in an unauthorized manner. He was curious about the resistance level of the human body. He had a Simpson 260 multimeter, a small unit powered by a 9-volt battery. That may not seem powerful enough to be dangerous… but it can be deadly in the wrong hands.

    The sailor took a probe in each hand to measure his bodily resistance from thumb to thumb. But the probes had sharp tips, and in his excitement he pressed his thumbs hard enough against the probes to break the skin. Once the salty conducting fluid known as blood was available, the current from the multimeter travelled right across the sailor's heart, disrupting the electrical regulation of his heartbeat. He died before he could record his Ohms.

    The lesson? The Navy issues very few objects which are designed to be stuck into the human body.

    August 2000 Dan Wilson elaborates:


    I'm a former Navy petty officer, enlisted for six years as an electrician aboard a US Submarine. I got a lot of training. This story was used frequently during my training in the US Navy as an example of what can happen when procedures and safety measures are not followed. I considered the story an urban legend until I found the incident report referenced in the official Navy electrical safety guidelines. I now know it is true.

    The actual event is slightly different than described above, and even more deserving of a Darwin award. This sailor stuck the sharpened ends of the probes through his thumbs intentionally. You see, he had just taken a course that taught a critical concept called "internal resistance."

    Internal resistance is resistance to electrical power flow that exists inside any power source. It causes the terminal voltage to drop when load (current) increases. You can demonstrate this concept, if you're careful, by monitoring your car battery's terminal voltage, while someone starts up the engine. The reading will be ~13 volts while the engine is off, but during the period where the starter is cranking it will drop to 8-9 volts. The voltage drop is due to the internal resistance of the battery.

    This sailor, like all other electricians in training, had already been through a safety class in which one of the excercises is to measure your body's resistance by simply holding the probes between your fingertips. (Most people read 500Kohms to 2Mohms.) Evidently, adding information from the internal resistance class, this sailor wanted to determine his own body's "internal resistance.". So he intentionally pushed the sharpened probe tips through the skin to elimate the rather high skin resistance and get only the "internal resistance". This, of course, caused his death.

    How, you might ask, with only a 9V battery? Easy. One of the "rules of thumb" that the Navy teaches is the 1-10-100 rule of current. This rule states that 1mA of current through the human body can be felt, 10mA of current is sufficient to make muscles contract to the point where you cannot let go of a power source, and 100mA is sufficient to stop the heart. Let's look at Ohm's law. Ohm's law (for DC systems - I will not discuss AC here) is written as E=IR, where E is voltage in volts, I is current in Amps, and R is resistance in Ohms.

    When we did the experiment in the electrical safety class to determine our body's resistance, we found a resistance of 500K Ohms. Using 9V and 500K Ohms in the equation, we come up with a current of 18 microAmps, below the "feel" threshold of 1mA. However, removing the insulation of skin from our curious sailor here, the resistance through the very good conducting electrolytes of the body is sharply lower. Around 100 ohms, in fact, resulting in a current of 90mA - sufficient to stop our sailor's heart and kill him.

    As my electrical safety instructor said, "The reason we now have to teach the electrical safety course to all electricians at least twice per year is because some joe was bright enough to be the one person in the world who could figure out how to kill himself with a 9V battery."

    DarwinAwards.com © 1994 - 2004
    Submitted by: Brian Lallatin
    Enhanced by: Dan Wilson
    References: US Navy Safety Publications

    svtti123
    All I can say is Damn...What a way to go ...Combat? Friendly Fire? Man overboard? Schrapnel? Nope 9 volt battery... Guess you could say he "discharged" himself from the service.
    thehumid1-------I live in NJ, a state where it's free to come in but you have to pay to leave!

  6. #175
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Posts
    454
    Originally posted by drivewizard
    The bigger question here is, why are any of us offering free assistance to a lawyer? When was the last time any of you got free legal help?
    In my opinion, if Bob Daley wants opinions he should hire us at the prevailing rate.
    We as Technicians are to willing an eager to share/show people how smart we are/ by giving away our knowledge. (Me included, although I am starting to change.)
    If we were not so free with our advice and knowledge maybe we all would be making more money.
    Are there any websites you can go to to get free medical advice/ diagnosis, free legal help, etc? Not just the standard get your foot in the door, advice/advertisements, but real advice/counseling for free. I didn't think so.
    Bob didn't come here for advice. He came here looking to get someone to testify, and provide expertice for a fee. He states that clearly in the first post.

    Since he hasn't posted in a while, my guess is that someone here took him up on it, and he's pursuing the case and someone from this forum is making a few bucks - especially since someone DID say they called his office etc. etc.

    Probably anything else this thread will discuss ought to be in a new thread - this ones taking huge leaps off topic.

    Eric K
    Air by Design

    989-596-0133

    airbydesign <@> gmail.com

Page 14 of 14 FirstFirst ... 47891011121314

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event