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  1. #14
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    Email me on it anytime....

    No single sales point. People like freedom. They like control. They like competitive pricing. Therefore, they like Open. Don't sell names, sell concept.

    Question(s)- How many of your customers give a rip about the name of the refer stuff you install? Or, how many give a rip if you tell them it's good?

    All you need is a thought out platform.

    And Dowa, rather than "And because of your analness" I kinda prefer "analysis" - if you know what I mean.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    66
    As an HVAC Tech, I've dealt with a fair amount of BACnet Integration, BACnet is definetley a wonderful thing, I think it is misconceived, it is not the Magical Word everyone thinks it is. When integrating the best thing to do is to try to combine two NATIVE Bacnet systems, when iI say native i mean there are no Gateways, or as i like to call them "Trinkets" needed in order for these two systems to talk to one another. They each have BACnet ports, such as RS232, UDP/IP, MS/TP, Ethernet and are basically Plug and Play other then a few configuration changes such as Network addresses, MAC addresses and those such things, these two systems are Plug and Play. None of this Echelon stuff which is rediculously complicated to set up. I know most customers well here in Canada are required to recieve three prices when bidding on work, so they don't always end up with a 3RD Party NATIVE Bacnet Vendor. But if you can sole source the work, try to stick to NATIVE BACnet Vendors.


  3. #16
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    What is complicated about Lonworks?
    What makes NATIVE BACnet easy?
    It seems you are still talking System Level integration. What about device level integration? In a native BACnet system, can a VAV from one manufacturer "talk" directly to a VAV from another?

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    66
    Hi Sysint, I'm not meaning to rowl you up, i'm just trying to clarify Native BACnet as such, I've never dealt with lonworks but i hear it is difficult and time consuming. It's a process in which points have to be mapped. Or in other words, translated from one protocol to another. With native BACnet there is none of this, you configure the adresses of the controller pop it online, and its as if you were looking at the original system controller, too easy.
    I've integrated with Siemens, ALC, Cutler Hammer, Cleaver Brooks, Phoenix Fume Hoods. To name a few.

    Yes they will talk to one another, for instance, I had integrated with a TRANE Summit BCU, that was on a chiller, BTW Trane is not NATIVE BACnet but they have a really nice interface that works well, the BCU acts as the translator or Gateway, anyway, I had to reset the chilled water setpoint from the outside air, all done from the Delta side of things, I then sent this value to the Chilled Water Setpoint in the BCU, the chiller the n controlled to this calcualted setpoint, I can start and stop the chiller on a weekly schedule or demand, it's to easy, BTW Trane sets up the BCU.

    Anyway Vendors can claim to be BACnet which only conforms to some of the standards, whereas NATIVE BACnet either meets or exceeds all of these standards. I picked trane because it was the easiest integration I've done. And it works well, again there are limitations, Each vendor has there own programming language, so yes you will need the proprietary software to edit any programming. But you can command the points through GCL+ which is Delta's Programming Language, or Command them Manually. So i guess in a sense you can program the other guys gear, through the BACnet front end.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    66
    Well, i can say that all of Delta's BACnet controllers, are now PTP, or point to point, which means, any two controllers will talk to one another and are fully programmable.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    Silver - I'm just trying to see what's changed. Anyway, talking to a BCU is a system level. Can the Delta (I think they have nice stuff BTW) VAV box DIRECTLY share space temp or other variables to an Alerton VAV? (without using a GC) Last time I checked that was a no-go. Can I configure all Delta's controllers with ALC software?

    Anyway, there is no "mapping" in Lonworks except for the ilon100 and NVE's. (not really a map either) If you are talking about binding, that is where you draw a connector between 2 or more points so they share information or override.

    Also, just 2 years ago the Delta sales guy said the access controllers were not BACnet. They made a change?


  7. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    66
    I get your point Sysint, didn't realize you were so experienced with BACnet, my bad.

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