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  1. #1
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    Discussion - Split from other thread by request

    Interesting signature, jim. However, IVP New Testament Commentaries concerning that passage states, " . . . the structure Luke points to is not a coercive communism that dispenses with private property through once-for-all expropriation to a common fund. . ."
    It's a mechanical device, designed by humans, built by humans and operated by humans. What could possibly go wrong?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixacr View Post
    Interesting signature, jim. However, IVP New Testament Commentaries concerning that passage states, " . . . the structure Luke points to is not a coercive communism that dispenses with private property through once-for-all expropriation to a common fund. . ."
    What is more interesting is that Matthew Henry wrote IVP in the first decade of the 18th century. I was unaware of any references to Communism back then. Besides it is a simple sentence how hard can it be to interpret?
    "War is cruelty,and you cannot refine it." Sherman to the leadership of Atlanta prior to burning the city.

    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    Albert Einstein

    Romney campaign: "We're not going to let our campaign be ruled by fact-checkers,"

    Lindsey Graham: “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    What is more interesting is that Matthew Henry wrote IVP in the first decade of the 18th century. I was unaware of any references to Communism back then. Besides it is a simple sentence how hard can it be to interpret?
    When taken out of context, that simple sentence seems to advocate the concept of communism. That is not the case. In fact, the author is merely recording a series of events.

    By the way, we should probably move this discussion. It was not my intent to hi-jack the thread.
    It's a mechanical device, designed by humans, built by humans and operated by humans. What could possibly go wrong?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixacr View Post
    When taken out of context, that simple sentence seems to advocate the concept of communism. That is not the case. In fact, the author is merely recording a series of events.

    By the way, we should probably move this discussion. It was not my intent to hi-jack the thread.
    Taken out of context? Please read more and you only come to the same conclusion. It advocates just what it says, it is afterall the Bible.

    Now this is what Matthew Henry, author of the IVD says of this passage. Remember this is your source for commentary.

    Matthew Henry's concise commentary
    4:32-37 The disciples loved one another. This was the blessed fruit of Christ's dying precept to his disciples, and his dying prayer for them. Thus it was then, and it will be so again, when the Spirit shall be poured upon us from on high. The doctrine preached was the resurrection of Christ; a matter of fact, which being duly explained, was a summary of all the duties, privileges, and comforts of Christians. There were evident fruits of Christ's grace in all they said and did. They were dead to this world. This was a great evidence of the grace of God in them. They did not take away others' property, but they were indifferent to it. They did not call it their own; because they had, in affection, forsaken all for Christ, and were expecting to be stripped of all for cleaving to him. No marvel that they were of one heart and soul, when they sat so loose to the wealth of this world. In effect, they had all things common; for there was not any among them who lacked, care was taken for their supply. The money was laid at the apostles' feet, that it be given to such as have need, such as are not able to procure a maintenance for themselves; those who are reduced to want for well-doing, and for the testimony of a good conscience, ought to be provided for. Here is one in particular mentioned, remarkable for this generous charity; it was Barnabas. As one designed to be a preacher of the gospel, he disentangled himself from the affairs of this life. When such dispositions prevail, and are exercised according to the circumstances of the times, the testimony will have very great power upon others.
    "War is cruelty,and you cannot refine it." Sherman to the leadership of Atlanta prior to burning the city.

    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    Albert Einstein

    Romney campaign: "We're not going to let our campaign be ruled by fact-checkers,"

    Lindsey Graham: “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

  5. #5
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    The incident recorded tells of a VOLUNTARY action taken by SOME of those present and was done to help other believers. It does not advocate communism which is the involuntary re-distribution of all wealth.
    It's a mechanical device, designed by humans, built by humans and operated by humans. What could possibly go wrong?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixacr View Post
    The incident recorded tells of a VOLUNTARY action taken by SOME of those present and was done to help other believers. It does not advocate communism which is the involuntary re-distribution of all wealth.
    Who said anything about Communism? It was how the apostles lived and they gave us a guide on how we should live as beleivers in Christ. It's there in the Bible in black and white. I don't care if you believe it or not that is your choice. If you want to talk communism etc. What does capitalism have to do with Christianity? There are many consistant quotes in the Bible that go hand in hand with the one quoted below.
    "War is cruelty,and you cannot refine it." Sherman to the leadership of Atlanta prior to burning the city.

    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    Albert Einstein

    Romney campaign: "We're not going to let our campaign be ruled by fact-checkers,"

    Lindsey Graham: “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

  7. #7
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    I know of at least one group who still operate in a somewhat similar manner.
    The Hutterites. They're a voluntary association based on a common belief and largely a common ancestry, language and culture. The sect is still operating
    Approx 45000 of them in 450 colonies. Not bad for a group with a 400 year history of non-violence and property sharing.
    “I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”
    ― Benjamin Franklin

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by allan38 View Post
    I know of at least one group who still operate in a somewhat similar manner.
    The Hutterites. They're a voluntary association based on a common belief and largely a common ancestry, language and culture.
    Interesting I hadn't heard of them before.

    Hutterites practice a near-total community of goods: all property is owned by the colony, and provisions for individual members and their families come from the common resources. This practice is based largely on Hutterite interpretation of passages in chapters 2, 4, and 5 of Acts, which speak of the believers "having all things in common".
    "War is cruelty,and you cannot refine it." Sherman to the leadership of Atlanta prior to burning the city.

    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    Albert Einstein

    Romney campaign: "We're not going to let our campaign be ruled by fact-checkers,"

    Lindsey Graham: “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    Interesting I hadn't heard of them before.

    Hutterites practice a near-total community of goods: all property is owned by the colony, and provisions for individual members and their families come from the common resources. This practice is based largely on Hutterite interpretation of passages in chapters 2, 4, and 5 of Acts, which speak of the believers "having all things in common".
    Sounds like the "Social Credit" system my French Canadian relatives are always going on about.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    Interesting I hadn't heard of them before.

    Hutterites practice a near-total community of goods: all property is owned by the colony, and provisions for individual members and their families come from the common resources. This practice is based largely on Hutterite interpretation of passages in chapters 2, 4, and 5 of Acts, which speak of the believers "having all things in common".
    http://www.hutteritedir.com/index.aspx

    http://virtual.horizon.ab.ca/hutcol/colhome2.htm



    Hutterite colonies were generally agricultural societies but they have branched out into light manufacturing. We have one near here that builds fire trucks, semi trailers. My brother has been dealing with them for the past 20 years in the ventilation, barn automation end of things. One colony had their own controls manufacturing company. Used to shoot with one that had a membership at our gun club.

    They grow their colonies and when it gets a certain size a group breaks off and starts up with seed money in another area. The colonies help each other out and trade between each other. One would make cheese, another wine, another CNC machining, and they would trade services. They are still people that you could make a deal on a handshake with.

    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bus...-95172894.html

    http://www.winghamcolony.com/links.html

    They are part way between your Amish and Mennonites (That is if you know who the Mennonites are.)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    http://www.hutteritedir.com/index.aspx

    http://virtual.horizon.ab.ca/hutcol/colhome2.htm



    Hutterite colonies were generally agricultural societies but they have branched out into light manufacturing. We have one near here that builds fire trucks, semi trailers. My brother has been dealing with them for the past 20 years in the ventilation, barn automation end of things. One colony had their own controls manufacturing company. Used to shoot with one that had a membership at our gun club.

    They grow their colonies and when it gets a certain size a group breaks off and starts up with seed money in another area. The colonies help each other out and trade between each other. One would make cheese, another wine, another CNC machining, and they would trade services. They are still people that you could make a deal on a handshake with.

    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bus...-95172894.html

    http://www.winghamcolony.com/links.html

    They are part way between your Amish and Mennonites (That is if you know who the Mennonites are.)
    Very familiar with Mennonites and Amish. Which is another reason why I am surprised I have not heard of the Hutterites. Thanks for the added information on them.

    Copied from link above.
    The Hutterites, who were 800 in number, relocated to South Dakota, where about half chose to homestead individually.
    The other established three separate colonies, between 1874 and 1877. At first things went well and the Hutterites were
    largely ignored by the general populace. However, when the First World War began in 1914, and the U.S. became involved,
    Hutterites were viewed as enemy foreigners, because of their refusal to participate in military service. During this time,
    Hutterite men were beaten and tortured, livestock was raided and people were forbidden to speak German. This caused many
    Hutterites to immigrate to Canada. The war had created a labor shortage on the Canadian prairies and the Canadian
    government was anxious to settle Hutterites there. Consequently they were assured of military exemption and religious
    freedom. Land was purchased in Alberta and Manitoba in 1918. There was some anxiety among other settlers, especially in
    Alberta, but this passed when the war was over
    .
    "War is cruelty,and you cannot refine it." Sherman to the leadership of Atlanta prior to burning the city.

    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    Albert Einstein

    Romney campaign: "We're not going to let our campaign be ruled by fact-checkers,"

    Lindsey Graham: “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    Very familiar with Mennonites and Amish. Which is another reason why I am surprised I have not heard of the Hutterites. Thanks for the added information on them.

    Copied from link above.
    The Hutterites, who were 800 in number, relocated to South Dakota, where about half chose to homestead individually.
    The other established three separate colonies, between 1874 and 1877. At first things went well and the Hutterites were
    largely ignored by the general populace. However, when the First World War began in 1914, and the U.S. became involved,
    Hutterites were viewed as enemy foreigners, because of their refusal to participate in military service. During this time,
    Hutterite men were beaten and tortured, livestock was raided and people were forbidden to speak German. This caused many
    Hutterites to immigrate to Canada. The war had created a labor shortage on the Canadian prairies and the Canadian
    government was anxious to settle Hutterites there. Consequently they were assured of military exemption and religious
    freedom. Land was purchased in Alberta and Manitoba in 1918. There was some anxiety among other settlers, especially in
    Alberta, but this passed when the war was over.

    Pardon my rudeness for interrupting here pagey but why are you arguing so much over the Bible and Christianity so much? I would think that you of all folks would be discussing and defending the Koran and the Muslim faith since that is what you have led us to believe to be your "faith" back in the thread "The "Obamameter". What gives here? Inquiring minds want to know. Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Pardon my rudeness for interrupting here pagey but why are you arguing so much over the Bible and Christianity so much? I would think that you of all folks would be discussing and defending the Koran and the Muslim faith since that is what you have led us to believe to be your "faith" back in the thread "The "Obamameter". What gives here? Inquiring minds want to know. Thank you, thank you very much
    Read the thread again, I never said I was Muslim. The closest I said to that was I said you can call me a Muslim lover if you wished.
    "War is cruelty,and you cannot refine it." Sherman to the leadership of Atlanta prior to burning the city.

    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    Albert Einstein

    Romney campaign: "We're not going to let our campaign be ruled by fact-checkers,"

    Lindsey Graham: “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

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