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Thread: Day One

  1. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_fridge View Post
    Revenue was down more than spending.

    Tell the whole story.
    That is quite a position to take. That makes it even worse. Most economists agreed that govt. spending was needed when Obama took office. So he lowered taxes, had to stimulate the economy and had less of a deficit. Averted an even bigger mess. The problem with the debt is not the deficit now. It is that we overspent when we didn't have to when the economy was supposedly good. It was "W" lowering taxes during wartime. The first time in human history that has ever happened.

  2. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_fridge View Post
    Again, you're getting bad info.

    According to most employers, wages are not the real problem; it's taxes, excessive regulation, and liability.
    Well then you go ahead and shine some so called "good info" sir......let me stop ya before you do your info is already bad

    regulations ensure worker safety whats wrong with that?

  3. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    That is quite a position to take. That makes it even worse. Most economists agreed that govt. spending was needed when Obama took office. So he lowered taxes, had to stimulate the economy and had less of a deficit. Averted an even bigger mess. The problem with the debt is not the deficit now. It is that we overspent when we didn't have to when the economy was supposedly good. It was "W" lowering taxes during wartime. The first time in human history that has ever happened.
    That was a statement of fact, not a position. Revenues were down more than spending was.

    I understand the need for deficit spending during recession. But it has to be within reason and the whole theory is that we pay it back when the economy picks up. We both know that rarely happens, regardless of who is in charge.

    The problem with the "stimulus" money spent over the last two years is that it was offset by bad policy and bad legislation. All that money spent should have caused things to pick up; but bad legislation like the healthcare bill and the threat of cap and tax and higher taxes has held down business expansion and job creation.

    So in effect, the money was wasted. Had it been spent with a more pro-growth policy from congress, the economy would likely be better now.

    BTW...after congress lowered taxes during the first "W" term, tax revenues climbed to an all time high.

  4. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_fridge View Post
    That was a statement of fact, not a position. Revenues were down more than spending was.

    I understand the need for deficit spending during recession. But it has to be within reason and the whole theory is that we pay it back when the economy picks up. We both know that rarely happens, regardless of who is in charge.

    The problem with the "stimulus" money spent over the last two years is that it was offset by bad policy and bad legislation. All that money spent should have caused things to pick up; but bad legislation like the healthcare bill and the threat of cap and tax and higher taxes has held down business expansion and job creation.

    So in effect, the money was wasted. Had it been spent with a more pro-growth policy from congress, the economy would likely be better now.

    BTW...after congress lowered taxes during the first "W" term, tax revenues climbed to an all time high.
    To address all the points correctly would take forever but on taxes. Tax revenue was at its highest in 2007. That is not surprising just taking growth into account etc. and that was the end of the balloon. Virtually every administration will get to make a claim like that unless we go through a depression or near depression. Are you a subscriber to the theory that if you lower taxes you will increase revenue? If you are why not lower the tax rate to 1%?

  5. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    Are you a subscriber to the theory that if you lower taxes you will increase revenue? If you are why not lower the tax rate to 1%?
    Yes, to a point. Obviously it has it's limits.

    Often, it's not so much the tax rate itself but the reduction that spurs growth. It frees up money in the economy, which results in higher pay and employment and more taxes paid. Downside of that is that the new tax rate becomes the new norm and raising it back up typically has a dampening effect on the economy. That's why raising taxes during a slow economy is typically a very bad thing to do. The better time, if they must be raised, is during an economic boom like we had when Clinton was in office. Even then, it can start a slow down that can help put us into recession a few years later.

  6. #71
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    There is no talk of raiding taxes, only restoreing them to what they once were

  7. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmanko View Post
    There is no talk of raiding taxes, only restoreing them to what they once were
    That is raising them.

  8. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_fridge View Post
    That is raising them.
    got it, dog gone d is to close to the s

  9. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_fridge View Post
    That is raising them.
    But if they were lowered originally for short term gain with the cost of running a deficit and they had a end date to return things to normal?

  10. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    But if they were lowered originally for short term gain with the cost of running a deficit and they had a end date to return things to normal?
    The problem is that we get used to the new rate and our budget adjusts to it. Then when it's raised back up, we feel it as a loss. That reduces our disposable income and impacts retail sales. That, in turn, negatively impacts jobs as employers lose sales.

    This is why raising taxes in an economy like this is so crazy. If we're going to raise taxes, do it when times are good so people and the economy can take the blow.

  11. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_fridge View Post
    Again, you're getting bad info.

    According to most employers, wages are not the real problem; it's taxes, excessive regulation, and liability.
    I believe wages are a big part of the jobs leaving...a very big part. While excessive regulation, liability etc... are a part of the problem....wages and benefits that american workers demand are just as much a problem.

    We have...well the mexicans have a problem right now of manufacturers packing up and leaving mexico for china and other asian nations and they are not leaving mexico because of increased regulation.......they are leaving because those 2.00 an hour mexican wages can be knocked down to a quarter of a dollar in central china and other asian nations.

    Nothing short of legalized slavery is going to bring jobs back here. The republicans, the tea party, the dims......none of them can offer anything to manufacturers that will keep them from leaving or bring new manufacturers here or keep the longtime american manufs from leaving.

    Another part of the picture a lot of folks dont realize is that while america may be the largest consumer market in the world.....the rest of the world is buying and consuming more and more each day and manufacturers are going to build their plants closer to those markets.

    anyhow... I agree that regulations are a big part of the problem.....but its not the deal breaker....
    "I believe this is a sovereign state of Nevada, I abide by all of Nevada state laws. But I don't recognize the United States government as even existing."

    Cliven Bundy.... Patriot ???

  12. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    I believe wages are a big part of the jobs leaving...a very big part. While excessive regulation, liability etc... are a part of the problem....wages and benefits that american workers demand are just as much a problem.

    We have...well the mexicans have a problem right now of manufacturers packing up and leaving mexico for china and other asian nations and they are not leaving mexico because of increased regulation.......they are leaving because those 2.00 an hour mexican wages can be knocked down to a quarter of a dollar in central china and other asian nations.

    Nothing short of legalized slavery is going to bring jobs back here. The republicans, the tea party, the dims......none of them can offer anything to manufacturers that will keep them from leaving or bring new manufacturers here or keep the longtime american manufs from leaving.

    Another part of the picture a lot of folks dont realize is that while america may be the largest consumer market in the world.....the rest of the world is buying and consuming more and more each day and manufacturers are going to build their plants closer to those markets.

    anyhow... I agree that regulations are a big part of the problem.....but its not the deal breaker....
    II was watching a report on this last week...forget which channel. They supposedly interviewed many of the larger companies and they said while higher wages was a factor, they could be offset by savings in shipping and not having to have foreign management. Taxes, regulation, and liability was claimed to be the major issues.

    Regardless, our government could stop much of this by making the domestic climate less hostile to business and manufacturing.

  13. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_fridge View Post
    That is raising them.
    Who cares, its not like they really affect any of us

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