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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Central Pa
    Posts
    7
    Originally posted by hayessd
    Originally posted by mxriderpa
    I don't know if the 500 employee figure is true or not, it may be. But those who stayed did not necessarily get a pay cut. There were significant changes in each individuals job description, but pay (at least in my branch) was not decreased. Maybe due to the fact that our branch is very successful.

    Some people have negative feelings about JCI for whatever reason. Maybe they worked here at one time and they were not the controls dynamo they said or thought they were. Maybe their boss was a jerk and their feelings are justified. I have had many jobs and never had an employer as good as JCI. I am given anything I need to get the job done. Laptop, Palm Pilot, very nice meters, any hand tools I may need. Paid training, airfare to training, all costs covered.

    Say what you want about JCI, they are definitely a great employer. Those who left, while unfortunate, are not missed professionally.
    I don’t have any facts about +- 500 casualties, but the 20% reduction in pay for the dedicated survivor(s) is a fact. You are correct that “service” did not take a cut in pay, just top techs.

    My branch is very profitable, and we lost valuable professional people that gave 110%. You may not miss the dedicated employees that gave many hours to JCI for free, but the customer will. Don’t let the shiny tools blind you.

    I'm still with JCI service… just so you know.

    [/B]
    Thanks for the advice. I'm not blinded by the shiny tools. If you would have read my post better you would have seen that I was specifically referring to my local branch. I can't speak for yours. Those who left my branch were less than dedicated, and in my opinion, should have been let go months ago.

    I do personally miss the ones who were let go from my branch. They were good guys with families, but they were not good employees, and brought the team down.

    The day of all these changes, each of us were sat down individually, and given a new job offer. The new job offer had our new salary (in my case I went from hourly to salary) and job description, including responsibilities.
    We could choose to take the job or not. Nobody was forced to accept anything. In my case the work that I had been doing that was not part of my job description was included in my new job description.

    I agree that the way JCI handled this thing was ugly, and some of it unnecessary. But I also agree that something drastic had to be done about the way we used to do business.

    In my office, so far, we have had nothing but praise from our customers about the changes. They like having to only contact one guy, and he knows the spec of the job, how the programming will be done, the lay of the job site, and everything else about the job. It was senseless to have a Project Manager and an SAE on a job, when the SAE could do both jobs just as well and give the customer more continuity.

    I do thank you for your advice Hayes, but I've been doing HVAC work for a long time, and am fully capable of determining whether or not an employer is good for me.

    P.S. Are you from San Diego?

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    216
    I,m curious if the NAE line was designed to cut down on the "BIG TEAM" approach that JCI has been using. It seems to me from what small amount of reading ive been doing on the NAE line that there are not near as many software applications involved and a SAE's duties may have been scaled back.

    Allen

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Central Pa
    Posts
    7
    Originally posted by acddc
    I,m curious if the NAE line was designed to cut down on the "BIG TEAM" approach that JCI has been using. It seems to me from what small amount of reading ive been doing on the NAE line that there are not near as many software applications involved and a SAE's duties may have been scaled back.

    Allen
    Not necessarily. I think the NAE was created because the market demanded a supervisory controller that didn't require as much software for the customer to buy, and be web based. With the NAE the customer can access their head end with any computer on their LAN as long as they have Internet Explore 6 and the appropriate JAVA plug-in.

    We still sell and install many NCM's, but usually to customers who already have an established PMI network. Many times these customers don't want to spend the money on an NIE (Inegration Engine), as well as training their staff to navigate an entirely new system.

    The SAE (now LSS) still has to know how to program PMI, N30, M5, M3, DX-9100, and all the other stuff that we used to have to do. In addition to the old Project Manager's and to a certain extent the Application Engineer's responsibilities.

    It seems that these changes brought us closer to the way other control companies operate.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2
    I think we get it mx, JCI is the greatest, and everyone that was fired sucked technically. It almost sounds like you were directed by someone to get on and defend mother Johnsons actions.

    I was one of the people who was fired by JCI and I find your comments ignorant of the facts and offensive to the others like myself who were fired based on salaries, not value. You should be familiar with value, JCI use to push it as the reason to pay more for using JCI.

    I'm sure you are very competent in your duties, but there were other competent technicians fired by your company because they weren't attractive to the bean counters.

    If JCI is so proud of there actions, why hasn't an official statement or press release been put out by your company about this?

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Central Pa
    Posts
    7
    Originally posted by 2cubed
    I think we get it mx, JCI is the greatest, and everyone that was fired sucked technically. It almost sounds like you were directed by someone to get on and defend mother Johnsons actions.

    I was one of the people who was fired by JCI and I find your comments ignorant of the facts and offensive to the others like myself who were fired based on salaries, not value. You should be familiar with value, JCI use to push it as the reason to pay more for using JCI.

    I'm sure you are very competent in your duties, but there were other competent technicians fired by your company because they weren't attractive to the bean counters.

    If JCI is so proud of there actions, why hasn't an official statement or press release been put out by your company about this?
    Yeah thats's exactly what I said (sarcasm). Did you read what I wrote? I said the people that were terminated from my branch, not your branch or anyone else's branch. I can't speak for anyone elses branch. Those who were let go from MY BRANCH should have been let go far sooner.

    If you find my comments about my branch and my personal experience with JCI offensive, too bad. You're welcome to feel any way you wish.

    The question was asked about what was going on with JCI, and a lot of people responded with information that was not first hand, and very one sided. I gave my opinion and the FACTS as it relates to my situation, not yours. I am proud of where I work, and I'm not ashamed of that. What's the point of working for someone you can't be proud of?

    If you find my opinion offensive, that's unfortunate.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    JCI is just getting a butt whooping from other vendors on pricing.

    ....that would be Lonworks vendors because no BACnet companies can bring the pricing down like the LON stuff.

    So, you have to jettison all the extras.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2
    I know you'll find it hard to believe, but yes I can read. Amazing as that might seem since JCI fired me. You, MX, are trying to generalize that everything is fine in JCI.

    I'm here to tell others that your JCI utopia talk is false and by the sounds of other posts, you're a rare exception.

    I'll assume that you'll never answer the question about the press release. Here is a couple others that you won't have to answer. Resolve the JCI Ethics Policy and the Customer Creed with what you've heard here.

    Keep drinking that JCI kool-aid.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Central Pa
    Posts
    7
    Sysint, you are exactly right. Only its not just Lon that was beating JCI.

    2cubed, JCI is a private coompany, its only responsibilities are to its shareholders and customers. If JCI feels there is a need for a press release, then it will make one.

    I'm not trying to change your mind , that's not why I posted. It sounds like leaving JCI was a good thing for you anyway, since they are just an evil corporation. Now you can move on to some other company and drink their Kool-Aid. I hope you have better luck in the future, but I don't see how you can go wrong since anything would be beter than JCI.

    I don't have any control over decisions made in Milwaukee. I can only control the way I do my job. I'll continue to do what I do, no matter who I work for, and I'll drink the Kool-Aid as long as I think its good for me and my family.

    That being said, I'd really like to stop bickering about this. It seems like most people who've responded to this thread are new members with few posts, myself included. People have strong feelings about this and aren't going to change their mind about it.

    I really do wish you luck in the future.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    mx- I have been seeing this trend. My company was the leading edge.

    Ever since Lonworks arrived the need for supervisory controllers went down. BACnet is the protocol that's still propping the concept up at this time.

    I don't care what it is - BCU, NAM, JACE, etc... they all were too pricey.

    Additionally, with the common network tool now the smoke and mirrors is gone. Now you don't need the management layers.

    JCI rebadges Distech for a reason.... $$$$$

    My personal opinion is that BACnet is simply riding the coat-tails of this and that manufacturers are hoping it hangs on to keep some form of hierarchal control for product stability in the sales cycle. That's why there is this big BACnet push.

    That's also why ARMY corps did the LON specification. They realize were this new competitive market stems from....

    BACnet benefits the control company and the manufacturer. LON benefits the end user. (the guy paying the bills)

    I shouldn't forget to add that buildings are getting smaller. Many opt for the office/manufacturing smaller facility that doesn't need that massive infrastructure.


  10. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Raleigh
    Posts
    126
    Originally posted by sysint
    JCI is just getting a butt whooping from other vendors on pricing.

    ....that would be Lonworks vendors because no BACnet companies can bring the pricing down like the LON stuff.

    So, you have to jettison all the extras.
    Syinc You seem to know what you are talking about in regards to controls. I enjoyed your spar with the bk??trane guy. How about helping a brother out on my Trane summitt blues thread on this forum

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5
    Here's what's going on:

    High $ techs gone or placed into "Cradle to Grave" (engineer, PM, program, start-up) projects ($1M - $1.3M portfolio).

    Bringing in $14-$15/hour techs for programming, start-up. Reduced benefits, no pension, only 401K.

    Centralized engineering gone. A few engineers in local branches for large/bundled projects.

    Project Managers either for large projects, or "Cradle to Grave", like high level techs.

    Trying to hire admin people to handle project documentation (submittals, RFI's, contracts, billings, collections, etc.)

    The just and un-just employee's fell into the same category. Some needed to go, some were casualities of their own experience (read: high salary).

    Typical bean-counter mentality corporation. Wasn't the first, won't be the last.

    No, I was not a casuality, but lost a lot of good people.

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    32
    I hear many people are dropping JCI for this reason. They get scared when faces change. Some told me they were switching or trying to switch to Automated Logic because the system is easier to understand and equipment was better.

  13. #39
    I worked for JCI for 15 years as a Service Representative IV. JCI during restucturing offered me a position in systems at a lower pay bracket. I declined the offer and was receiving calls from contractors the very next day. In less than two weeks I was back to work making more money.

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