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  1. #14
    Originally posted by brettln
    Has anyone ever heard of a free clinic in our trade?

    Yeah, we used to go to one in the early 70's for birth control pills. If ya picked up VD, they would help ya out with that too..............no........I never had it.
    Hey cockroach, don't bug me!

    www.AskTheDiceman.com

    www.TheColdConspiracy.com

    www.Pennwood-HVAC.Com

    Bring Em Home....

  2. #15
    Originally posted by Dowadudda
    It comes down to this.

    Money.

    A lot of you guys have this attitude that the contractor is loaded with cash. I'd say thats only true 20% of the time. Now don't get me wrong. At the end of the day, when it's all said and done, the money in, then all the money out, there is always a little left over. But you all must remember that, it takes money for training. And the way this business can operate, cash flow is inconsistent for most shops. It's not that there broke, it's just that sometimes they can be rich in future work and current assets, and a lot of people owe them, but there present here and now, there cash poor. And I am sure other guys can relate to this.

    These things are not cheap. I wish that a lot of these manufacturers would start offering reasonable prices for in house shop visits for training. But they seem to never want to work with the contractors. Were all rich you know.
    It also comes down to ROI... I see alot of techs who want all the classes but never step up to the plate when it comes down to using the knowlege or really learning something. I'm not an owner but it seems to me an owner would send a tech to training 1/3 of the time if it made the company money the other 2/3rds... I got a gig with a local JC vendor to do startups on all their VFD's, the company paid for the training, they lend me out to the JC guys and everybody makes coin... the class was paid for the first day I did my startups... ROI, return on investment.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    12,077
    I would say that was a unique situation and probably doesn't apply to the overall problem or solution we need to come up with.

  4. #17
    Originally posted by Ammonianite
    Our companiy's attitude appears to be- "Here's the book, go out and fix it!" For three years, I have been feeding them information in regards to training opportunities and certification." I am especially concerned with ammonia refrigeration. I've had discussions with supervisors in relation to this. My point in these discussions has always been- you can't follow your normal modus operandi here:
    you can't just give a guy a book and send him out to work on an ammonia refrigeration system.

    But probably they won't change unless someone gets hurt or
    there is significant damage to their tightly-closed pocketbook. I don't know if this type of insanity is standard for the HVACR industry in general or not. But you think an employer would view training as an investment in greater profitability. Sure, I can see their argument that if you train someone they'll seek opportunities elsewhere.

    But I counter with the argument that if people are leaving your company, perhaps you better look at what type of work environment that you, as an employer, are providing. Sure,
    some will leave no matter what but if you treat your employees well, you will retain a significant percentage.
    On-going training will indeed provide you with a significant return on investment.

    Absolutley Agree!!!

  5. #18
    Right now the way things are so screwed up ... an employee can anwill leave for nearly any reason. So if you go training them ... you are out some dough.

    But at the very least ... someone will come your way who was also trained ... at another's expence, and be your new man.
    So what goes around, comes around.


    You cannot mature an employee. Neither can an employee develope or raise the maturity level of an employer!


  6. #19
    SOP on ROI for sales and retrofits for major commerical energy savings stuff was always 18 months or less. If the salesman could get the prospect to see his ROI to be 18mos or less... on paper ... they would usually sign on the dotted line.

    I ran some numbers the other day, ROI for any kind of extensive training is one year or less for a tech!!!


  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    204
    When I started at Entech............all employees are made to sign an agreement that stats the following. In any circumstance of employment being terminated or upon resignation, any training aquired within 6 months from last day shall be paid by deduction from last paycheck recieved.

    Seeing that we get paid twice a month, that alot of money to lose.LOL

    Anyway, thats how our company deals with it. They are just very picky who they send. We have to take a technical knowledge test before our review every year. They use them to see what schooling someone maybe in need of. But someone relativly new to trade like me needs just about all the schooling i can get. LOL I guess hard for them to decide.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Lubbock, Texas
    Posts
    267

    RIGHT NOW THE WAY THINGS ARE SCREWED UP

    THEY LEAVE BECAUSE THEY CAN GO TO WORK RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER TECHS ARE IN LARGE DEMAND ALL OVER THE COUNTRY
    ( WELL OTHER THAN THIS YEAR WITH SCREWY TEMPS) BUT IF THEY ARE NATE CERTIFIED THEY MUST TAKE 60 HRS OF CE. NOW HOW ABOUT THE EMPLOYERS? STARTING 2005 HERE IN TEXAS ALL LICENSED CPNTRACTORS WILL HAVE TO TAKE 8 HRS A YEAR AND THERE ARE SOME OF US TRYING TO PUT A STATE CERT FOR TECHS IN PLACE
    Learning never ends and everyone has something to teach. Some people teach me what to be like others teach me what not to be like!

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Posts
    3,112
    Have the federal government mandate licensing for residential as well as commercial. Do not grandfather anyone. If you currently hold a license, you can apply for the new federal license. if you don't have a license, it doesn't matter if you've been doing HVAC for years, you must take and pass a national test. Require A specific number of CEU's annually. Nate can be used for some of these CEU's but include items like customer relations, accounting and personal appearance. Until our trade is regulated nationally, we will continue to be looked at with contempt and scorn. One last thing; have everyone furnish a picture quarterly to the licenseing agency. If you look like Grizzley Adams and need a shave or if you are wearing your favoriet plaid jacket you've had for years, your license will be suspended. When a large portion of our peers look like they just stepped off of the set for a remake of Deliverance, no wonder we can't get any respect from the general public.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,195
    "If you look like Grizzley Adams and need a shave or if you are wearing your favoriet plaid jacket you've had for years..."

    LOL! I've been known to resemble that remark. Hirsuteness and comfortable clothing are no barrier to knowledge, craftsmanship or honesty. I look like hell in a button down, and the only creases in my clothes were in them when I bought them. I'm clean, forthright, and meet all promises. What part needs changing? Self-employment hath its privileges...

    "That's good enough..." usually isn't.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    9,919
    Originally posted by brettln
    When I started at Entech............all employees are made to sign an agreement that stats the following. In any circumstance of employment being terminated or upon resignation, any training aquired within 6 months from last day shall be paid by deduction from last paycheck recieved.
    I know where they learned that. Before glasnost, anyone wanting to leave Russia had to pay them for their education before they could leave.

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