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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Spyder Programming Help

    Hi,

    I am new to Spyders and just out of the Spyder course. I am humbled to admit the learning curve is really frustrating me. I spent (wasted) all day trying to share my sensors SAT with the Smart vav's nviDuctInTemp and still hadn't gotten it. I think I know what I was doing wrong to Link/bind them, but I was wondering if anyone here would be willing to share some sample logic, wiresheets, projects with me for the sake of learning and help me with this learning curve that seems rather flat right now.

    I am trying to build our first application. Pressure dependent system Unitary Spyder PUL6438S, with 3 Smart VAV's W7751h. If it was a single zone system I could just use setpoint based logic that comes with the venom package, but as the W7751 work on terminal load for heat cool call I am more than lost as to how I should approach it.

    I would really appreciate any input or sample programs that anyone is willing to share. If anyone is so inclined my email is in profile.

    Now I am off to the gym to vent the days frustration



    Thanks for any input,

    Rick
    Last edited by Rick_h; 10-18-2010 at 06:44 PM. Reason: spulling wuz rong

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Ontario
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    Wow - 8 hours or work and I got an analog input to go to the SmartVAV (I have some other names for it right now...) Feeling real dumb right now. But I figure hey at least I learned something. Then I thought great use the same method to link the Terminal load to a Network Variable in the Spyder.

    -Create the network Variable set it to be viewed on Wiresheet.
    -select "link mark" on the VAV controller in the Lon network wire sheet and then Link from vav inside the spyder controller.
    -Select the nvoTerminalLoad as the source and everything is greyed out in the Spyder.............

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Western Colorado
    Posts
    497
    I believe that to link anything into a Spyder; you have to set up your nvi's on the Spyder "control programs" wiresheet, (be sure to set as network variables at point config. stage), then select "generate nv's" at the Spyder controller level, (right click on the Spyder),
    then do a points discovery and discover your created nv's and add them to your "points" database. Now you can link to these points, the ones in your "points' database not on your control program "database". Of couse "bind" after you've made your links. Hope that helps. Good luck,
    rad1
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
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    Fort Worth\Dallas, Texas
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    Now I may be misunderstanding what you are saying Hobie, but I would link the actual lon points (controller to controller), not the niagara proxie points.

    Rick -Does your RTU actually have heat in it? What ver of the Spyder tool are you using? Do you have the Venom apps?
    Go Rangers!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Western Colorado
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    I have had little success with device to device bindings using a Spyder. Like Rick, I find the point I want as my source and I highlight it, then go to the target side and I find all points "greyed" out. When I do a Generate and Discover, then go to the Lon network wiresheet and do the process again I find the link available. I am not a Spyder expert by any means, as you well know! But I am getting a more positive opinion of the Spyder each time I use one. But I admit, sometimes what I find that works for me isn't the recommended approach! I just now tried dropping a Venom loaded Spyder and a Vav controller onto my wiresheet and I could not find many device to device bindings available. Lane, Can you coach the OP on how your approach to do this?
    rad1 out
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  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Fort Worth\Dallas, Texas
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    As long as you generate the NV after you have created it and make sure that you are using the same snvt type on both ends you shouldn't have a problem linking directly from controller to controller.

    For any typical nv I usually just create them straight from the palette and configure them on the wiresheet.
    Go Rangers!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    steeler nation
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    what are you trying to do with terminal load?
    IV IV IX

    use your head for something other than a hat rack.......Gerry

  8. #8
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    You're saying that the"Generate Nvs" has to happen, but the points discovery does not; in order to do a device to device binding? I agree that should be all that is necessary, but sometimes I don't find my "Lon Points" in my target device(Spyder). I use the SpyderTool Pallete to add my points also. I try to select the appropriate one before I drop, but it's nice to be able to change it if I change my mind!
    RealEyes
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  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Western Colorado
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    I think he's looking at the terminal load for a setpoint to use.
    RealEyes
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Ontario
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    Hi, thanks for all the replys.

    I have the links working now lwarren had it when he mentioned about the same snvt types at both ends. That was the cause of why IO couldn't link from the points I wanted. I am linking points from the 3 smart vav's to the lon spyder so everything will keep working if the Webs 600 goes down.

    Lwarren - Yes the RTU has heat, it has 2 stages of heat, 2 stages of cooling (2 - 5 ton stages), plus economizer based on enthalpy and also monitoring CO2 in the return air.

    I think I am using 4.8.3 of spyder tool (not sure how to check that) I know I have Venom 4.8.8 however on WEBStation-AX-3.5.24.

    Viceman - I was thinking of using terminal load in some way to create a setpoint. Reason being I was told that was how the Rapidzone system worked. I don't think this is going to work though - problem is if any zone is sitting in cooling mode no matter how big the heat demand it won't generate a terminal load until the nviDuctIntemp value show heat.

    I think that answers any questions asked of me.

    So where that leaves me is understanding a little more about linking and able to get the data in - Thanks for the pointers - much appreciated.

    Where am I stumped - how should I approach bringing 3 zones into the spyder to get one setpoint for the RTU?

    Thanks for your time everyone.

    Rick

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    San Diego, CA
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    You should be using SpyderTool 4.8.8 if you're running 3.5, as 4.8.3 is not supported in 3.5

    Since you only have 3 zones, are they of similar size/load? I figured then that you do not have a bypass damper. You could average the temps, or create a selector to switch control between Avg or Max temp. Make sure you read a doc in the buildingsforum that explains how to implement fail-detect on the nvs, so your main AHU controller knows what to do in case the bindings fail. It's under spyder lon tech tips => network variable fail detection.

    You mentioned this is a pressure dependent application, meaning your smart VAVs won't actually know how much cfm each box gets, correct?

    If you bind your nvoDaTemp from the unit to the nviDuctInTemp of the zones, the zones will know when to switch action. I think the mid-point is around 72F with a 2-3 degree deadband.

    Good Luck

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Ontario
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    Thanks Digo,

    The zones are similar size/ load but they do have a bypass installed. We want to control each zone independently, as different area's might be loaded at different times. This is for a mens and womens changeroom/ shower area at a munufacturing facility.

    Rick

  13. #13
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    Location
    steeler nation
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    sounds to me you are trying to create a vvt system from scratch.
    this can be quite a challenge. you may have been better off with a rapid zone.

    it may be easier to go VAV and get some sort of reheat in the boxes.
    IV IV IX

    use your head for something other than a hat rack.......Gerry

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