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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    873

    York seal, now it seal...part deux

    After much discussion and external check-outs the decision was made to pull the compressor, M/N LTD-126 out of the discharge scroll housing. Outer input bearing and high speed oil pump housing (aluminum section of cover) were in good shape. High speed thrust and impeller readings are within spec's. There is no low speed thrust. The impeller was removed (no damage) the back of the impeller gas seal had a small hot spot about a quarter inch in diameter and the impeller had touched the laby surface on the bottom with no removal of metal. The low speed oil pump has evidence of high oil temperature burning. The pump centrifugal piece was full of the remains of high oil temperature decomposition and the actual surface between the center backside and the low speed shaft was burnt black. After cleaning the low speed was checked again ( bearing installed) and the thrust was .010", The runout was .008" TIR as measured 4" from the end of the input shaft, coupling end. As York has no spec's on shaft runout my guess is the low speed shaft is bent. The readings were obtained while turning the high speed pump assembly so no outside force would have to be added to the equation. My question now is how do I go about removing the high speed oil pump from the high speed shaft. We have a special tool with 4 pins to turn it with the low speed gear locked from turning. (removed 1/2 plug and installed tool). The repair manual (York's) shows a picture of a guy using a similar tool with a cute little bar through it and barely exerting any force on the pump. This not my first teardown on a York like this,but it has never been that easy. The book says turn it clockwise facing the shaft. It doesn't turn even with 6' of extra force added to the mix. Okay guys what's the trick to remove the high speed pump and low speed internal shaft. The last time we did this it involved a machine shop, a rosebud and a forklift for pulling. This time I think it is going to be worse because of the added heat to the parts. Can I get some help and advice?-GEO

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Austell, Ga.
    Posts
    1,294
    Ya' gotta' Luv' dem oldies for sure...
    All kidding aside though, by this time I am going to assume that replacing the High-speed oil-Pump has already been decided....(Wise Choice)
    Therefore, the destruction of the old Hi-Speed pump is a mute point and you want the hi-speed shaft out...period..
    If the "Longer-Lever" has not worked along with some serious heat, The next step, (in my book) is to obtain a large grade 8 nut 1-1/2" or so, and weld that sucker to the oil pump inlet area with some 7018 rods or TIG it if available..
    Then with a rosebud and hi-output Impact wrench set for left hand threads spin that sucker off. I'm not talking about some battery powered wimpy impact wrench but a 1" drive job...This is much easier that having that rotor support trying to roll around the floor when pulling on that 6'-10' cheater..
    As far as removing the low-speed shaft from the Bull gear I must assume there is a serious problem with either the shaft or the gear, or both...
    Remember this sucker has been tightening up every time this beast has started, and perhaps the last one it did not see fit to use the now famous "Thread Compound"...
    To remove the Low speed shaft you need a jig with substantial rods welded to it to match the hole pattern in the bull gear. By substantial I mean the largest size that will go thru the holes..Now from the exposed shaft end you need to place a vee-block under the shaft so not to bend the shaft when pulling "Down" on the Huge 24" or better wide jawed crescent wrench and the six foot cheater you have now grown to have loved..
    Break out the trusty rosebud again and heat the shaft-gear but not enough hit the "Curie" point...That is the point where steel is no longer magnetic and all heat treat can and will occur....This is slightly less than orange hot...but no-where near yellowish."ONLY" pull down on the cheater against the vee-block holding the shaft else a bent shaft "Will" result...
    Whew......
    In the next issue I will tell you how to straighten a bent shaft (Any) with nothing but a small torch set....
    I wish you luck, this is without a doubt the most difficult of any and all compressors out there, including the venerable Ol' 19C...
    When re-assembling "Do Not" use the "York Thread Compound" they once claimed you "Must" use, but now the required stuff is "Never-Sieze" of the Nickel variety instead of the copper crap sold in some places..
    I wish ya' well on this one....It's a bugger' for sure...
    Ain't "None" of us as smart as "All" of us..

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    873

    We pull, you pull and we'all pullen

    RichardL, Thanks for the come back, like I said I went through all this once before on an LTD-120 and it did not have any overheating or oil cooking. The high speed has to come apart to get inside the scroll (gears). As I said before the low speed is bent already .008" TIR. The low speed oil pump and lower sump has coked oil debris and heat staining on the pump. Will try the weld and break over on the oil pump and yes we do have a 1" impact and young bodies to hold it up. Thanks and I let you know how it goes-GEO

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    873

    After weekend update

    Well the next step we are going to take is manufacture a stronger tool. This one will be 5/8" thick and fit over the oil pump with 4 slots offset 3/8" as the oil ports in the pump assembly don't run along the centerlines of the pump. It will have openings 180* apart to mount a 1" - 40" long breakover bar with a 6' muscle multiplier tool. The opening in the front will have a 1" drive impact socket welded to it. The thought here is heat it up (Rosie's job) install the tool over the pump locking in the pins (4) in the grooves, put in the breakover bar and pipe to supply heavy and constant pressure and use a 1" impact gun in the socket and give it clockwise orange treatment. I'm not sure if we are looking at Tuesday afternoon or Wednesday, because we are not sure when our tool will be avail. Wish us luck -GEO

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Austell, Ga.
    Posts
    1,294
    Sounds like you have truly put some thought into breaking this thing loose....Years back on a large Panamanian tuna boat, the El-Perro, with 2 million pounds of dressed tuna on board, & getting hot, I had a Lil' Peruvian indian hold a 12" chisel in the oil groove for a giant Panamanian deckhand weilding a 10# sledgehammer and that oil pump got loose on the second blow of the sledge....Had it running in less than 4 hrs after....In them days venting the air was a standard practice in getting the thing running..No vacuum pump anywhere on board...
    Ain't "None" of us as smart as "All" of us..

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    873

    Those were days my friend, we thought they'd.......

    So what did you use for refrigerant- tuna oil ? Yeah, I remember taking 200# empties and blowing the liquid in to hold it just so we didn't have to put it down the drain. I wonder what would have happened if all the current revaluations concerning global warming, climate change and ozone depletion (haven't heard that one lately) had ever surfaced back about 1980. Getting off track though. Didn't do the deed today as I had to go reprogram a Trane RTWD 250 in a chemical plant. So hopefully tomorrow we'll bust it loose. I'll try to get some pictures. You mentioned a worry about it moving (the compressor) when we start pulling on it, not to worry we have it mounted on a frame, custom made in the good ol' days-GEO

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    873

    The thing is all apart

    RichardL, Well Rosie did her job quite well. It all came unglued with-out any damage to shaft or thrust collar. I did take pictures, but I can't download any off the camera because of somebody doing excessive software tinkering. What I should have remembered from the last time I did this on a large LTD compressor was the pinion (high spd) gear shaft is threaded left handed and the high spd internal shaft is threaded right handed and both are spun into the thrust collar. York does not show that in their parts and procedure book. Just like they don't show any part # for the plastic slider seal that fits in the groove of the thrust bearing. The pictoral show an item #64, but the list has no item name and a straight line through all 4 compressor groups. This hasn't been my week.-GEO
    Once in a while everything falls into place and I am able to move forward, most of the time it just falls all over the place and I can't go anywhere-GEO

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    873

    Just a Footnote

    Got the final word from the machine shop today. I was wrong on my measurement for the low speed input Flex shaft. It is not .010" TIR, its more like .042" (Bye Bye shaft) It's very costly. Let's just say it was a very unlucky fining and very large finding difference.
    Once in a while everything falls into place and I am able to move forward, most of the time it just falls all over the place and I can't go anywhere-GEO

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