Trane vs. Trane vs. Trane vs. Lennox-opinions pls.

[MarciaFL]

I'd appreciate any feedback on the following systems that have been quoted for my home in Tampa FL. Is one of these superior to the others?

(Sorry for the length of this post, but my sincere appreciation for those who post a reply)

SYSTEM A.

TRANE: SEER 17.5 4 TON
coil: 4TXCD061BC3HCA
Furnace: TUD080R9V4K
Outdoor unit: 4TTZ0048A1
Thermostat: TCONT9000
10 yrs. parts/ 12 yr compressor
eligible for mfg. rebate & gas company rebate
-- does NOT qualify for Fed. Tax credit ----


SYSTEM B.

TRANE XL16i : SEER 17 -- 4 TON
coil: 4TXCD063BC3HCA
furnace: TUDZD120ACV52A
outdoor unit: 4TTX6048E1000A
Thermostat: TCONT9000
10 yr. parts/ 12 yr compressor
eligible for mfg. rebate & gas company rebate
---qualifies for Fed Tax credit------

SYSTEM C.

LENNOX SEER 16 4 TON
coil: CX34-62C
Furnace: SL60C280UH-090V
Outdoor unit: XC17-048
Thermostat: TH622
10 yr parts/ 10 yr compressor
no mfg. rebate, but eligible for gas company rebate
----qualifies for Fed. Tax credit-----

Regardless of the brand, I plan to get the extended labor warranty. Is there any difference in the extended warranty coverage between LENNOX and TRANE?

Details on my home appear below -- Is there a better system (brand) that I should investigate? Am I buying too much system -- or not enough?

I'm looking for the best value on a reliable, QUIET, dependable, appropriate system for my home in Tampa (central) Florida. I want a system with good humidity control and one that will result in utility cost savings compared to my current 12 SEER Bryant system.

Cost wise, the TRANE, SYSTEM B is the best buy -- mostly due to it's eligibility for the Fed. tax credit. Am I giving up any features or operating characteristics with that configuration compared to SYSTEM A? (It would really help if these contractors had literature that they could leave with me on these units.)

My home:
10-yr old single story
2000 sq. ft. 3 bd/2 bath
Cement block, Stucco covered on a slab
1 double sliding glass door facing West
13 single pane, builder grade windows covered in blue tint 3M hurricane film. 2 windows face east
5 windows face south
2 windows face west (along with the sliding door)
4 windows face north
75% of the house has 12 foot ceilings, the balance of the home is 8 foot ceilings.
Roof has dimensional shingle
Attic insulation R30, ductwork is in the attic
Washer and dryer are in an indoor laundry room. kitchen has stove microwave, dishwasher and refrigerator. 3 TVs, No other specific heat producing applicances other than a laptop computer and a printer. No pets, no allegeries.

Current split sytem Indoor unit is in the garage (which also has r30 insulation in the ceiling). Outdoor unit is on the West side of the house.

3 Manual J calculations came in at 4 tons; 1 said 3 ton. Current unit is a 3-1/2 ton which sometimes struggles in really hot weather and can take 6 or 7 hours to lower the temp. by 3 degrees if a set back the thermostat while I'm gone for the day.) I generally set the thermostat at 78 during the day/76 or 77 at night in summer and 66 in the winter. The current unit cycles on and off multiple times a day. Humidity control in the home has been great.

My electric bill is usually highest in August. August 2009 - $159.00, August 2010 - $145.32 (So not so bad -- but lower would be better)

I'm replacing my current Bryant system because of its history of breakdowns (over $4000.00 in repairs) and recent maintenance inspections that have turned up more problems, rust, questionable contactors and a warnings that it's on its last legs. This summer it needed a need fan motor -- it's just been patch, patch patch with this thing.

Thank you all so much -- this forum is helping me so much with this decision.

[BaldLoonie]

Not sure why you'd need a 120K 80% furnace in Tampa for 2000 sq ft. We don't put that size in for 2000 sq ft here in below zero country!

I'd forget #1 with no tax credit. Some setups with the 16i don't dehumidify all that well. Might be something to consider with #2 besides the grossly oversized furnace.

The Lennox system would be quiet if that's important.

Sounds like staying 3.5 ton might not be that bad. Did anyone check to see if you can handle more airflow with the bigger unit? Most existing duct systems are UNDERSIZED for what you have let alone going bigger.

dash, you service this area?

[beenthere]

Not sure why the size increase if a 3.5 ton has been handling the cooling(unless you want 2 stage). And those electric bills look ok from here, where we don't get as warm.

[MarciaFL]

Baldloonie -- I think you're hitting on my problem. It's my understanding that it's the furnaces that keep a lot of Trane systems from qualifying for the Fed. Tax credit. It's also my understanding that when you get to 4 ton units, it becomes even harder to engineer matched systems that qualify. I'm starting to wonder if it's worth it to chase the Fed. tax credit -- perhaps it's even better go to a lower SEER -- but I don't have a catalog, a price list or the background to compare the investment and equipment quality to the time line for ROI -- I have to rely on the HVAC experts to tell me what will give me the best return.

Trane System "A" gets a bigger Mfg. rebate from TRANE but no Fed. Tax credit (and comes in as more expensive than System "B"). System B, with the "fancy furnace" gets a lower TRANE MFG. rebate but does qualify for the full Fed. Tax credit and therefore looks like a better buy -- at least as far as cash outlay. I'm under the impression (from talking to the contractor) that it's hard to find a "lower grade" furnace for system "B" without tossing out the Fed. Tax Credit. He also mentioned that that fancy furnace may require modification for venting which would also mean involving a licensed gas contractor (that cost is not included in the quote). I guess I need to go back to the HVAC contractor to find out if he has a TRANE furnace that would do the job, at a cost that would make the bottom line on the system cheaper than the current "fancy furnace" quote that qualifies for the rebate.

As far as the comment about going from 3.5 to 4 tons -- isn't that a factor of the manual J calculation rather than looking at the current size of my system (although granted 1 had one contractor out of 4 came back with 3 tons and the other 3 tell me I need 4 tons. ) I don't have the background or experience to second guess or question the HVAC guys providing these quotes .... and there's no test drive on a new system. I am so thankful for this board . You're giving me an education that hopefully will help me ask the right questions and get me to a new system.

[beenthere]

How well is/was your current 3.5 ton cooling your house.

If it was handling the load. Then the manual J is probably slightly off. Or they used a lower indoor temp and or higher outdoor temp for design.

[mgenius33]

Are you saying that your HVAC contractor that sells gas furnaces is not a licensed gas contractor? That's odd. I would think venting would be considered incidental to a licensed mechanical card holder??? Gas line installation or conversion would not.
I believe the 4TTZ is only capable of a 12.5 EER (I think your A package would be 12), and the 4TTX is capable of a 13 EER in the B package

[MarciaFL]

Mgenius33 - my contractor sent me an email with the estimate for system B and included the comment:

"One more thing about highly efficient furnaces --may need some modification to the exhaust venting but I am not sure if that new furnace will require modification to your vent stack. If it does, a licensed gas contractor must be called in".

The contractor's website claims that they do air conditioning, heating and plumbing -- I just don't know yet if the statement above will alter the quote or if he means that the licensed gas contractor will be an employee of the his company or what? Since they'll be installing a new gas furnace, venting OK or not, I would hope that they work with gas.

[airtight_tech]

The company I work for deals almost exclusively in Trane and 95% of our installs are high efficient gas furnaces. The only time we have to call someone in for venting, is a roofer when we work with Spanish tile roofing. I would be interested to know what he means

[mrfixinthangz]

The company I work for deals almost exclusively in Trane and 95% of our installs are high efficient gas furnaces. The only time we have to call someone in for venting, is a roofer when we work with Spanish tile roofing. I would be interested to know what he means

He has to cover the additional cost of not tying in to an existing vent stack?
I would go Trane XL20i it has two compressors and works really well humidity removal if I wanted more savings I would go dual fuel heatpump. If I wanted a really good deal I would wait to see if Homestar pans out.

http://www.efficiencyfirst.org/home-star/

[MarciaFL]

Since several have asked why move to 4 tons from 3.5 tons if 3.5 is doing the job, does Trane (or other mfgs). make 3.5 ton AC units? Looking on the Trane website, I don't see 3.5 ton units listed? Is it possible that that's why I'm getting quotes for 4 ton units (particularly when I talking to a Trane contractor)?

[beenthere]

Trane makes 3.5 ton single stage units.

Like everyone else though. they don't make 3.5 ton 2 stage units.

[Airmechanical]

if i were you, i might consider the Trane;

4 ton 20i communicating system will be perfect, i know it gets cold up there some times so get the heat pump with a 10 kw backup strip

that is the mac daddy system in my opinion



.

[MarciaFL]

Am I making a mistake if I select system B (below) with the oversized fancy furnace? The Trane Comfort Specialist dealer that I'm working with says that it won't be a problem. He also tells me that my ductwork is fine (although I don't think he looked at it very carefully).

This thread points out that it's more furnace than I would ever need in Florida -----BUT ---- cost wise, that system comes in much, much cheaper than the estimates that I have for other 4 ton A/C systems with smaller furances (which don't qualify for the Fed. Tax credit) and 2 estimates that I have for 4 ton heat pumps with electric strips. It's weird the way it's working out, but there doesn't seem to be another furnace (according to the contractors that I'm working with) -- that isn't oversized --that matches up with that a/c that will qualify for Fed. Tax credit. With the Trane mfg. rebate, local gas company rebate for new equipment (which just increased in my area), and the full Fed. Tax credit, I can get system B for a much better price than any other system that I've had quoted. If I go with a smaller furnace such as speced in System A below), I will pay over a $ more.

The Trane mfg. rebate runs out at the end of October so I need to make a decision or loose that incentive or (inhale) go after more quotes -- and yet another contractor?

Thanks in advance for your replies.