ReplyYes.
Trust your contractor.
Regular Guest
I was watching over the shoulder of my HVAC service tech who was attempting to get the old POE oil out before putting new in. The system is a 3.5 ton Goodman heatpump on 410A. The reason for the new oil is that both the flowrater and the TX have jammed up over a period of about 4 years. The flowrater had a waxy residue on it when it was removed a while back. That just isn't right. So they are completely flushing the system and replacing the oil and 410A.
-Trouble is only about 2 tablespoons of POE oil came out. He was pushing nitrogen into the valve on the large diameter line and venting through the valve on the small diameter. This would require the oil to travel from the compressor all the way through the coils in the outdoor unit to get out? This just seems like the difficult way to get the oil out to me. But IANAHVST. Any comments?
No return.
Yes.
Trust your contractor.
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
Ain't gonna get the oil out that way.
Member
not the correct way...
Not the correct way to remove the oil from a system. Click on the link below to watch a video on how a system is to be flushed. The guy in this video has made several HVAC videos and does a pretty good job.
Last edited by beenthere; 10-08-2010 at 05:46 PM. Reason: removed link
Regular Guest
2 out of 3 say this isn't the right way
-so what is the right way to get the poe oil out of the compressor?
That was an excellent video but he had the compressor removed. My guy is doing this without replacing the compressor.
Professional Member*
Take it out and flip it.Originally Posted by timevacuum
Professional Member*
You have other problems if in four years your system has a waxy residue jamming up your metering device.
Do you get your condenser coils thoroughly cleaned every year?
Psychrometrics: the very foundation of HVAC. A comfort troubleshooter's best friend.
Professional Member*
uhh, replace the compressor, and flush the system properly without the compressor or TXV's connected....
Good luck with that system lasting it's expected 10 years.
The new compressor comes shipped with proper amount of oil in it.
Regular Guest
I don't clean the coils yearly. Curious though. How would this create stuff to jam a valve sealed in the system?
On the topic of trusting your installer, I've been down that road. And it wasn't fun. I have a new installer now and he's doing a good job. But he's dealing with issues left behind by the last guy.
So going back to the OP, other than ripping out the compressor, there's not much that can be done to replace the oil in the system?
Professional Member
I think he is inquiring about the coil cleaning because; a dirty condenser coil will cause excessive head pressure and thus an abnormally high refrigerant temp which may have broken down the oil (I am not too familar with POE) but this is probably the case, I am guessing. The only way to get the oil out is to flip it(the comp) and liquid flush the lines with a product designed for that purpose. Bypassing the metering devices on the indoor and outdoor units.
Regular Guest
Alright that makes sense. I'll have a good look and give it a clean. Dr.Zarkloff's got a pretty good description of the basic cleaning process. Thanks.
No return.
Did you hear he got busted for suspicion of child perversion?
He is in lock up right now.
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
No, I didn't hear that.
Got a link?
Regular Guest
So here we are, it's two years later and it appears that the sliding orifice (aka Flowrater) in this heat pump has jammed once again after a long summer without use. In heating mode, there is plenty of heat in the refrigerant supply to the AHU, the line out is cold and there is very little heat output in the air coming out. I can only assume the small amount of heat output is due to a lack of refrigerant flow.
I haven't jumpered to test cooling but I seem to remember these exact symptoms last time.
Assuming that it is the same waxy crap causing the issue:
-Does anyone have any ideas what could be the source of the waxy crap?
-One of the previous posters commented that a dirty coil could result in high ref temps. Is there a known upper temperature limit for POE oil or any other R410A additive that I need to beware of once back in operation?
-Any success on freeing up the slider without sucking down the system and pulling it all apart?
Last edited by timevacuum; 10-04-2012 at 04:35 PM. Reason: spelling
Professional Member*
I should have followed up on my previous reply two years ago, so sorry about the delay.
I mentioned the dirty coils because high head pressure and high compressor discharge temperatures go hand in glove. When refrigerant oil becomes too hot, it begins to break down and form carbon deposits. A film of this carbonized oil tends to show up in metering devices, because this is the location in the refrigeration circuit that has the most narrow paasage. Everywhere else the carbon partiicles tend to stay in suspension, but precipitate out in the metering device. Just this past summer I saw this first hand in a Trane Voyager rooftop unit with a metering manifold and a double row condenser coil. An unbelievable amount of dirt had built up between the two rows of coil, causing high head pressure. Double row coils can easily be missed by even well meaning techs who clean coils yearly. If you don't split them apart, they don't get clean enough. Not nearly. Micro-channel coils also need careful attention to stay clean.
The last time your system was serviced, was a new liquid line drier installed?
Psychrometrics: the very foundation of HVAC. A comfort troubleshooter's best friend.
Regular Guest
-two year or two hours, either way I'm thankful for your response!
In answer to your question, it took some convincing to get them to change the drier/filter last time. It was tough as I was caught between "trust your tech" who says it isn't required / not something they normally do and me insisting on the good advice I have seen on this site.
I have changed techs away from the local factory authorized to another with good recommendations. Not that the other guy had any bad recommendations. However, one good sign is that after I told him the tale, one of the first questions was "Did they change the drier filter?" He looked at the system today and it appears that it may not be the orifice after all. He found oil in the drip pan and a very small leak in the A coil at one of the end turns. I guess we have been breathing POE oil for a while. Yikes! He will be back next week to fix it and I suppose I have just experienced the Goodman difference.
While the system is sucked down, we'll have a look at the orifice to see if it has any issues. I don't think that a clogged orifice would increase pressure in the A coil enough to cause weak points to pop, would they?
Last questions. I checked after the tech left and the coil is still under warranty.
-Does Amana/Goodman replace the whole coil if there is a small leak?
-Are new coils any better than the ones built in 2006 (year installed) design wise? problem wise?
-Any advice? Should I a)repair coil by new tech. b)install new coil with old factory authorized tech c)install new coil with new tech (Will Amanda/Goodman allow him to do it if not "factory authorized"?)
Thanks again
Professional Member
Have him leak check the coil. If it is leaking have it replaced.
Where is the manual? What does it say?
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
Have the new tech replace the coil. Goodman/Amana doesn't care what company replaces it.
Regular Guest
The tech found a tiny leak with his sniffer on the first visit.
will the replacement evaporator likely be an aluminum coiled unit?
I will search but if there is a debate somewhere on Goodman copper vs aluminum, a link would be nice especially if discussing Gooman in particular. What are your thoughts?
Professional Member*
I would try and get the newer all aluminum coils!
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