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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    16

    Carrier 19XR oil line flare breakage ?

    I've had a 19XR 700 ton chiller crack the oil line flare a couple of times now. It breaks/cracks the flare where the oil line is connected to the bottom of the comp. before the oil filter. I have 3 in the central plant and this is the only one cracking. I have no abnormal vibrations . I would appreciate any ideas.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Western WA.
    Posts
    15

    overtightened?

    I do not know about your machine but could it be that the original was overtightened and so where the repairs. I know a lot of guys think tight just is not tight enough. I still see leak lock being used on flares all the time so it is clear to me many do not understand flare connections.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    U.A. (upper Alabama)
    Posts
    867
    We had the oil line break twice on a 19XL. The problem was the oil pump cavitating from too much refrigerant being returned to oil sump with oil scavenger. This machine did'nt have valves on oil scavenger filter, so we installed some and pinched oil scavenger down. This took care of problem. This one did vibrate oil line though. If this does'nt help, try a double flare.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,108
    What's cracking? The nut, the flare, or the pipe? If it was the flare or the pipe, I would think it's being overtightened or was a bad flare to begin with. I see lots of improper flare practices in the field. If you do a textbook flare (cut, ream, file, flare), and don't overtighten it, it's a reliable joint.

    Has there been any vibration analysis done to establish what's "normal"? for your machine?
    "There is no greater inequality than the equal treatment of unequals."

    -Thomas Jefferson

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Apex, NC
    Posts
    37
    we always use a torque wrench on all flares and rarely see cracking.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Greenville SC
    Posts
    434
    Not real clear on which flare is leaking. Is the flare fitting located on the front side of the Compressor under the suction elbow or under the motor? What size flare is it?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    16
    It's cracking at the flare right at the fitting leaving the comp. It's a 7/8" line at the bottom of the comp. under the motor . We didn't use a torque wrench on it , but did make a good flare and oil it.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Austell, Ga.
    Posts
    1,296
    I trust you are aware that "Both" the 45 as well as the 37 flare fittings are used on many of the compressors out there today..
    Methinks' thou' art using a 45 flareing block on a 37 fitting....It will seal off...It will "Also" break at some time......JMHO
    Ain't "None" of us as smart as "All" of us..

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,108
    That right there is very interesting, Richard. I've never heard of that before. Which manufacturers are using the 37 degree flare and is there an easy way to identify it?
    "There is no greater inequality than the equal treatment of unequals."

    -Thomas Jefferson

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    15
    Carrier doesn't use hydraulic (37 degree) flare fittings. If the original flare cracked without vibration, odds are it was over tightened or improperly supported.

    45 degree flaring tools in 7/8" are uncommon. If you replaced the flare, check your flaring tool to verify it is a 45 degree tool. A 37 degree flare on a 45 degree fitting could cause this due to the over tightening required to make the seal between the different angles. In addition, improper positioning of the copper in the 37 degree flaring tool block may result in a sharp corner at the point where the copper flares outward. The corner becomes the weak point especially if being used on 45 degree fittings.

    Excessive refrigerant in the oil causing cavitation is possible but unlikely especially since you notice no abnormal vibration.

    Another possible cause (albeit unlikely) is an open rotor bar in the motor. An open rotor bar will cause pulsations in the oil pressure.

    What we did at Carrier was apply a mixture of antiseize and oil (to the consistency of a milk shake) to the back side of the flare (where the nut rides) and to the fitting threads making sure NOT to get any on the sealing surface. Doing so will remove the friction in the fitting and allow you to tighten the fitting up smoothly with no skipping giving you a better feel for how tight it's getting.

    BTW, I checked the Carrier service bulletin index and found no bulletins pertaining to this problem.

    Good luck!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Western Wa
    Posts
    1,842
    That's good info, Richard. I always thought 37 degrees was for hydraulics.
    I've got one that same size in my herd.

    I wonder if any of our OEM tech friends can shed some light on this.
    God Bless our Veterans

    God Bless the USA

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    1,113
    Could you be accidentally using a type L or type M copper piping instead of a Type K?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    16
    I think I found the problem . One of our tech's used no factory type clamps for the oil filter mounting ( thinner clamps). I found more vibration then I care for when we started the chiller. Put the factory wide clamps back on and the vibration went down 80%. I think we're good . Lots of BS for some $ 20.00 clamps. Thanks for the help.

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