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  1. #1145
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,560

    Dear Serverroomcooling,

    Not exactly back to square one with 88 pages of knowledge, experience, and HVAC system application to your project friend. “Vendor issues”, what a perfectly all inclusive term that phrase can be.

    I would again open the yellow pages under commercial and industrial HVAC contractors and try to solicit several more contractors to your facility to bid on a new HVAC system, after all the time and trouble you have already gone through it would be a shame if you had to “settle” for any one contractor at this point.

    That is my take on this project at this time friend, and I know what this will mean to you having to call, arrange appointments, answer questions, and then call the contractor’s back to get them to bid this project, but if your job was that easy then anyone could handle it right…………..

    Lastly, once again I have to say that not all commercial contractors conduct business and have the limited knowledge regarding your particular application like the ones you have unfortunately been dealing with, so look up, you may yet find a great contractor for both your installation project and your future P/M service friend.

    Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton


  2. #1146
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Hollywood, FL
    Posts
    365
    well....of course it's not square one....but here is where I am at now....the exisiting guys are trying to get another system for me.....meanwhile, my Liebert guy just called me and told me he had installed a Mini Mate 3 ton for a aclient, and they never moved in, so it's just sitting there. He offered it to me at a cheap price, I should get that price soon, either today or tomorrow morning. At this point, if it's under a certain dollar amount, I'm going to do it. 3 ton is what I have now and is working just fine

  3. #1147
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,560
    Dear Serverroomcooling,

    Does this Mini Mate 3 ton system have hot gas bypass for capacity control and any kind of low ambient condensing capacity control, and if so, which type?

    Please post any optional components that will be included in your possible installation.

    As always…..waiting for your reply friend……………….

    Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton


  4. #1148
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Hollywood, FL
    Posts
    365
    I have been told it has all that I need.....I'll get the details and forward it to you

  5. #1149
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,560
    Dear Serverroomcooling,

    Regarding your previous post:

    “I have been told it has all that I need...”

    Yep…..I’ve been led down that proverbial garden path myself a time or two……

    But as always, time will tell my friend, and I will look forward to your anticipated equipment manifest post.

    Still trying to determine if that light up ahead is from the sun, or some impending disaster coming down the tracks…..Dennis bothering you folks down there?

    Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton

  6. #1150
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Hollywood, FL
    Posts
    365
    Dennis wasn't much of a menace, but we did have power outages and trees blown around. Weak tree limbs were natuarally pruned away as well.

    I'm spent with this project, truth be told, 3 tons is a magic number for me....we won't have problems with power from the building. 3 tons was an agreed size. I also plan on consolidating a bit and not growing anymore, so we should be good for now

  7. #1151
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,560
    Dear Serverroomcooling,

    Regarding your previous post:

    “…so we should be good for now.”

    In my line of work I find the word “now” to have such a relative value in terms of time. But time is what we are all connected to at the moment, therefore time will tell my friend, time will surly tell.

    As far as the 3.0 ton load goes, you have been through Memorial Day, and have Labor Day yet to come…..like I said….time will surely tell my friend.

    Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton


  8. #1152
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    82
    Dear Serverroom,

    Approx. 32 pages ago (give or take a hundred) I warned you about dealing with APC for coolng solutions. I doubt you will ever get a unit since word has it that they are getting out of supplying compressorized product. (too complicated for them....they can't just plug it in) Their interest is in big data centers where they can push their "Power structure" system that integrates chilled water cooling into a dense rack system.
    I just learned this from a Rep friend that handles them...



  9. #1153
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Hollywood, FL
    Posts
    365
    truth be told.....I never liked them anyway.....the price was right.....I'm going for the Liebert Mini Mate

  10. #1154
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,560
    Dear Serverroomcooling,

    As always, let us know how it turns out….or not.

    Again, good luck from southern California in your pursuit my friend.

    Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton


  11. #1155
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,560
    Dear Serverroomcooling,

    Something about “chilled water” in a dense server rack just sounds so…….impending to me. Condensation, water leaking, something just doesn’t set right for some reason, oh well, as long as they know what they’re doing…………….or do they?????????

    Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton

  12. #1156
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    39
    I only read the first three pages of Posts, and I couldn't stand 80-some more, so forgive me if I missed something.

    Go with the Liebert. You will get accurate temperature and humidity control, and you will get a box that is designed from the start to run around the clock, and it has alarm circuitry that you can use to get pages or whatever, before the problem gets serious. Liebert has a very good service organization, and they understand that your application is important. Through the years I and the company I work for have messed with packaged units and split systems for computer rooms, and we always ended up going back to computer room air conditioners.

    I also recommend that you install some type of water detection, depending on where the unit is placed.

    As regards the chilled-water-in-the-rack scenario, I'd agree that on the face of it it sounds risky, but I'd also have to say that in my career, the great majority of my water problems in computer rooms have been with humidifiers and with condensate removal (plugged drains, failed ejector pumps, and the like). I've only had a couple of problems with either chilled water or condenser water leaks, although they certainly have the potential to be big problems. Taking a step back, the root problem with rack cooling is that at some point it is not cost effective to continually drive up the watts per square foot. Put another way, at some point it is more cost effective to simply increase the square feet.

    Regards,
    Rotorbar

  13. #1157
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Hollywood, FL
    Posts
    365
    no more mini mate, we will never pass inspection.....I'm getting a quote for the 5 ton challenger unit that can be adjusted to run at 3 tons and increased if I need more. If it's not soooo much more, I'm going for it

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