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  1. #1132
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    84
    OK I have a similar server room. The difference is that it is in a basement and it is in upstate NY. We plan on using a Trane TWE AHU with a thermo expansion valve and TTP cond. unit with a 0F low ambient electronic head pressure control. We are putting the server cabinets up on blocks with sheet metal to create a plenum under them (there are two cabinets) and ducting about 50% of the air to the plenum. The rest of the air will be discharged behind the cabinets (the AHU return is in front of the cabinets). The fan will run continuously.
    Does anyone think we need anything else.

  2. #1133
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,560
    Dear Olc,

    First and foremost, start another thread so as not to confuse anyone here, as well as yourself down the road.

    Two, state as much information as you can regarding your exact location, the actual equipment load, your requirements, and anything else you could think of.

    Start the thread with this information, and be prepared to answer an onslaught of addition questions concerning information that you neither have now, nor even completely understand.

    I’m being serious, your cooling project is “completely different” than Serverroomcooling’s project, and therefore should be treated so from the very beginning.

    Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton

  3. #1134
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    1,214
    Originally posted by john dalton
    Dear Olc,

    First and foremost, start another thread so as not to confuse anyone here, as well as yourself down the road.

    Two, state as much information as you can regarding your exact location, the actual equipment load, your requirements, and anything else you could think of.

    Start the thread with this information, and be prepared to answer an onslaught of addition questions concerning information that you neither have now, nor even completely understand.

    I’m being serious, your cooling project is “completely different” than Serverroomcooling’s project, and therefore should be treated so from the very beginning.

    Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton
    It's no fun when I agree with John but it is completely different for starters most of Florida does not have basements. Please do start the thread though so that i can argue with John there about the low ambient head pressure control.

  4. #1135
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,560

    Ahhhhh........HVAC chess

    Dear Thehumid1,

    First of all, there is nothing to argue about in regards to low ambient control of the condensing fan after it was revealed that the hot gas defrost that I was referring to, and you were objecting to, was in fact a DBV, rather than a HGB type system. But………I’m sure that if Olc gives us enough information about this project, there will ample time for our game of HVAC chess my friend.

    Until then, have fun……….

    Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton

  5. #1136
    Is this thread available in Cliff Notes??
    Hey cockroach, don't bug me! ©

    www.AskTheDiceman.com

    www.TheColdConspiracy.com

    www.Pennwood-HVAC.Com

    Bring Em Home....

  6. #1137
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,560
    Good Diceman,

    Not only are the Cliff Notes being made available for all the posts, but this thread has a book being made available through Barns and Noble entitled:

    “Designing, Installing, and Servicing Server Rooms For Dummies”

    How’s that for service folks…….

    Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton


  7. #1138
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    1,214
    Hope its not like this kama sutra for dummies:

    http://www.thetoiletonline.com/kamasutra

  8. #1139
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,560
    Dear Thehumid1,

    No, not like that…………………

    Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton

    PS: Talk about being lead down the garden path.....not for me.

    [Edited by john dalton on 06-28-2005 at 07:22 PM]

  9. #1140
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Hollywood, FL
    Posts
    365
    of course the July 1 date for delivery of my new AC unit was wrong, they are telling me that it won't be until the 17th.......hope they don't mind when I can't get them a clear answer as to where their check is....It was cut, and mailed....let me put you on hold.....ok...it's mailed......then let them call me back for months and months and months

  10. #1141
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7
    Gentleman:

    I wanted to say this is perhaps the most valuable message thread I have ever read. Over the last few years I lived many similar experiences to those of this thread - but without the benefit of experts like yourselves. This thread has been fascinating and I have learned a immense amount of new knowledge on top of my prior "real world" experience.

    For those who are interested: I "inherited" a server room several years ago that was flawed from day one. A 3 ton Liebert mini-mate system was installed - but the original contractor totally undersized the unit. They took into account the server load, but none of the ambient load. Patch upon patch was applied to this server room in an attempt to guess at fixing the problem.

    I also had a nearly impossible time finding an HVAC service company that had a clue. When someone did have a clue they tended to be flakey and impossible to get responses from... much like this threads original author has experienced.

    Along the way I learned something VERY important. When designing mission critical server systems, I was prioritizing servers, software, network architecture, etc.

    I learned that anyone working on mission critical server solutions should prioritize as follows:

    1. POWER - nothing works without it.

    2. COOLING - everything melts without it.

    3. ETHERNET - nothing can talk without it.

    If you have the first 3 right... well then - and only then - should you start focusing on all those software and hardware buzzwords All that server bling can - and will - be rendered absolutely worthless if #1 - #3 are ignored.

    Power, cooling, and ethernet cannot be an IT afterthought. They HAVE to be the first thought.

  11. #1142
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,560
    Dear Visionik,

    Regarding your previous post:

    “…This thread has been fascinating and I have learned a immense amount of new knowledge on top of my prior "real world" experience…”

    Just thought I’d mention that all the “new knowledge” you learned from this thread came from decades of “real world” experiences from several of us who work full time in the HVAC field.

    Respectfully Submitted,
    John J. Dalton


  12. #1143
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7
    John:

    Oh, absolutely. That came across repeatedly.

    I should make it clear that I believe in hiring experts to do the job - but I also believe I should learn as much about these subjects as possible.

    The day I realized power and cooling were the most critical systems in my data center was also the day I realized I needed to build a solid, basic understanding of these technologies and their terminology.

    This understanding helps me:

    1. Prevent vendor bs and bluff,

    2. Understand my vendors real costs and challenges better,

    3. Explain what I want to my vendors more clearly, and

    4. Take power and cooling into account as part of a more "holistic" approach to data center build-out.

    As an example of #4 - once I understood our ongoing costs and challenges for appropriate power and cooling, we started searching for a "more appropriate" server vendor. After 14 months of evaluating 5 different vendors we selected rackable.com and switched to a -48v DC power system. (Less power conversion, less ineffeciency, less heat, etc). These new servers are far superior to our old servers (Dell) when it comes to density, power consumption, and thermal management. I'd never have considered Rackable before my "power and cooling" epiphany.

    If anyone is interested, this article discusses some of the server/power cooling issues behind our choice:

    http://www.computerworld.com/hardwar...101542,00.html

    Not everyone agrees with the switch from AC to DC, but personally I am a convert and a preacher of DC powered servers and a more holistic approach to data centers / server rooms as a whole.

    Since the "patchwork" data center story I have had two new data centers built. In addition to DC power systems these new facilities have redundant 20 ton Liebert units. They are very nice systems. Very expensive... but very nice.

    I wish you were in the South East - our data centers are also down south, in Orlando and Atlanta. Based on the immense knowledge and professionalism you've displayed here, I'd hire your firm in a heartbeat.

    In any case, again, hats off to everyone who has contributed to this thread.


    [Edited by visionik on 07-05-2005 at 09:01 PM]

  13. #1144
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Hollywood, FL
    Posts
    365
    back to square one.....APC is having "vendor issues" that have prevented the unit from being built....my Liebert guy says he can get me a unit install within 3 weeks....I don't know if I can trust him....it's also double the price!!!

    just when I think I'm out of the woods, I get pulled back in.....maybe I'll build a new server room in the woods

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