Office staff to worker ratio

[workerb]

Hey guys, long time lurker first time poster. I work for one of the big three manufacturers CSO and I was wondering how many office people most places have to support service techs. We currently have 20 service techs and 15 people in the office,we have:
1 service manager
2 asst service managers
1 safety manager
1 dispatch manager
1 sales manager
2 dispatchers
5 salesman
2 accounting people

I have only been doing this work for a few years and might not be the smartest person but this looks like a recipe for failure, it's pretty obvious why we cant seem to make any money with this kind of overhead. Is this common or am I missing something.

[amickracing]

Best way I had this described to me is it must be in a pyrimid, one boss, a couple supervisors, and more workers, or something similar anyway.

I can't give you exact numbers, but here's a rough guess of my company.

1 boss, 2nd is boss's wife
1 accountant (boss's daughter)
1 dispatcher
2 secretary's
4 plumbing supervisors (1 service, 2 new construction)
1 HVAC service supervisor (my boss :-(
2 new construction supervisors
15-20 sheetmetal guys, new construction
6 service/installers
and approx 60-80 plumbers
1 mechanic

oh, and 2 big happy office dogs.

[Collin]

2 owners (both hands on workers)
2 office staff
1 Dedicated salesman
6 Journeyman Plumbers/Gasfitters
3 Third year Apprentices
1 Second year apprentices
2 First year apprentices

[Collin]

And I thought I had a saop opera with as many guys as I have.
60-80 plumbers!!!!!
No wonder you are having issues!

[BaldLoonie]

We have 11 in the field when they all show

1 owner, works a few hours in the afternoon when not in Florida (up there in age, bad back, recovering from surgery)
1 well paid owner's son who sells but little more
1 full time salesman, mostly commission paid
1 service manager, decently paid (me)
1 office manager
1 dispatcher
1 service plan manager who assists dispatcher

we had a receptionist who answered the phone and filed but was booted since a computer answers the phone and the filing dumped on the already strained dispatcher with backup by the office manager.

We are very paperwork intensive with much repeated handling of invoices and install paperwork. Boss likes many reports so much time dedicated to analyzing for him.

Sounds like Mr. Racing has a smooth running place with little overhead in the office. Must be the dogs doing so much of the work

[R12rules]

Paperwork should be simple and few.

An outfit which handles much paper performs little work.

A company which is "top heavy" is sad to see.



When a guy just starts out, he wants to know when he can get out of the field and be in the office.
That number is five to one. Five trucks generating revenue and one person in the office. Maybe a part time book keeper and the owner hands off the tax stuff to an outside firm.

[boat racer]

The company I work for also runs 5 to 1 during the busy season, dropping off by attrition to 4 to 1 during slack times. With 30+ guys running in the summer we have to wait in line to talk to the dispatcher or boss; I'm glad their preference is worker bees and not office drones just the same.

[supplymike]

Here are some examples of my office experiences working for HVAC businesses.
First HVAC JOB.
1- Owner/Salesman
1- Part Time Secretary
1- Bookkeeper (me)
1- Service Manager. Reitred a year later, duties were split between me and owner
4- Service Techs/Lead installer
2- apprentices. (owner's daughter also helped on installs when needed.)
1 - Sheet Metal Shop Manager
2 - Sheet Metal Fabricators and Installers
If owner had not sold business and new owners wanted me to drive 100 miles everyday and also thought I was overpaid for what I did, I would still be there today. I tell everyone I left there cause I couldn't lie to the old customers who I used to deal with for over 8 years.

2 HVAC JOB

1 - Owner/salesman/Service Tech
1 Supermaket Installation Manager/Lead Installer/Service Tech
7 - Service Techs, also did installs.
3 - Installers primarily new supermarket installs or
Remodels
1 - Sheet Metal Shop Manager
1 - Sheet Metal apprentice
1 - Office Manager. (me)
1 - Office Helper. for me.
1 - Office/House Dog.
Compamy was run out of owner's House.
That was a very hectic job to say the least. When I started there it was owner and Condenseddave.

3 Hvac Job
Started as an outside Salesman for a Supplier that I used to buy product from at 2nd Job. A few months later. Spent less time on the Road. A year later I was promoted to Branch Manager. really as a process of elimination, Owner had no one else to choose. I have been there 7 years now. and Its the easiest Job of the three. This all because I went there to get a tube of leak lock for a drag racing friend of mine, and they offered to give me a Job. strange how things happen.

[drillman]

I work for a government maint dept.

In the field
12 maint guys
2 AC/Heat guys
1 Electrician (me)

In the Office
1 clerk
1 supervisor
Yep, thats it.

This does not work.
What ends up happening is some of the maint guys end up doing paperwork. This is time that they cannot do work orders.

It simply does not work well, but thats the government for you.

[TGravlin]

The real answer may lie in a different direction. Better Question is "How much revenue does the company have per Employee?" both field and office.

1 Million dollar company with 12 employees will be losing money. ($83,000/employee) Say 5 office and 7 techs. Find a way to do the 1 millon with 7 people total and things are much better. (5 techs and 2 in the office)

Start approaching $200K/employee and things are really good.

My company = $700,000 with 4 people (you do the math)

[Special Ed]

Yeah, the company I currently work for is kinda set up weird.

There is an owner/president who seemingly does nothing but aimlessly wander the shop greeting & patting his employees on the back & collect a paycheck (which is probably a sizeable sum). I don't mind this, for he definitely deserves it.

Now, his wife seems to be the person who actually runs the place, believe it or not. She also makes sure the computers are doing what theyre supposed to.

Then there are two ladies that answer the phone & trade off dispatching duties. There's also an office manager & a secretary for the in-house salesmen. And on top of that, there are an additional two to three ladies who are responsible for who knows what.

Then you have the salesmen (two), a service mgr., an install mgr. & two other guys responsible for bidding & overseeing new home installs. Oh, & before I forget, there's also a parts mgr. & a parts runner.

Now, I finally get to the money-makers. There are six techs with two apprentices/helpers & about eight installers (two installers to a crew).

And that's about the gist of it. What do you all think? Too much overhead?

[a\c don]

The company I work for:

2 owners, Husband,wife team.
3 office staff

2 hvac techs
3 plumbing techs
1 hvac/plumbing tech
1 warehouse/delivery

No sales staff as techs do own estimates/sales as well as installs and service.

[blue_r1]

funny topic, the guys always joke about this when we bring on a new tech or apprentice. "i guess we will be seeing a new face in the office soon"
4 full time plumbers
2 full time fitters
10 techs
3 apprentices
3 owners 3 guys who bought the old company out after working for it, no hvac field experiance
1 service manager does job quotes/ customer relations
1 estimator mainly construction division
1 parts guy/delivery guy
1 bookeeper
3 secetaries
1 sales guy ( i use the term loosely he doesnt have a clue about hvac, must have some dirt on one of the owners )
1 service managers assistant ( new hire, seams like her job dutys are the same as the service manager, again not a clue about hvac


[Edited by blue_r1 on 11-20-2004 at 10:25 PM]