Regular Guest
I have a Rheem Imperial 90+ furnace, that was installed in 1989. Model RGEB 07EC FS. Sometimes, when this furnace lights, 2 of the 3 burners do not light right away. They finally light when the circulation blower comes on. I have had 3 different service persons look at it, and it never seems to do it when they are here. Today it did, once, while the repairman was here. He could not find any problem that he could put his finger on, and he called in to his shop. They said they have run into this before, and were never able to resolve the problem.
Does anyone have any ideas???
I hate to replace the furnace if it can be repaired.
Professional Member*
I've had alot of trouble with those in the past.. Some of them had a recall on the heat exchanger, and the igniton modulor. ALso the recall had you turn the ignitor to it's side vs laying down flat. I don't recall the full model # of those recalls....
Also make sure the intake vent is letting air in (If there is one hooked up).
Also make sure the burners are lined up on the crossover bars.
Professional Member
Have the heat exchanger cells checked. A 15 year old B model is ready to be put out to pasture. The service tech will have to pull the burners and pipinig to inspect the heat exchange so they can clean the orifices and stuff then. Of course, if the expected cracks are found, have you quiet moment with the unit and then leyt it go.
Global Moderator
Crossover is welded to the burners but still likely the culprit. The crossover is fed gas by the gas valve kinda like a pilot feed. Any lint at all in the crossover and you have this problem.
Troy is right, check that heat exchanger carefully. We found 2 bad ones last week, changed out both furnaces this week with new Rheem products. Our distributor gives us the value of the heat exchanger towards a new one. Both homeowners elected to replace. Of course the one was the distributors Mom, she did what sonny said to do
Regular Guest
I replaced the complete burner assembly last season, and it did the same thing right away. so the I don't think the crossover is the culprit. The burners showed some deterioration, and I suspected that there might be spider webs inside the crossover.
I don't know if the list will allow this question, but, Does anyone recommend another brand furnace?? I go to the Rheem web site, and all they seem to want to sell anymore is water heaters.
Global Moderator
http://www.rheemac.com is the HVAC site. I'm a big Rheem fan, everyone had problems with furnaces of the RGEB vintage. The new RGRA, RGRK and RGFD models are excellent.
Someone else posted a RGEB delayed ignition problem recently. Ignitor wasn't proper. You need 62-22868-93 mounted sideways just above the crossover but not touching it.
Regular Guest
At this point, I just have a sour taste for the Rheem/Ruud units. I have had problems with this unit since almost the beginning. Almost every electronic component has been replace. I have had the hot surface ignitor go out so many times, I keep one in stock. The last one went out during a blizzard and I lost my heat. I live in a very rural area and the roads were drifted in. BTW, The one from a Maytag dryer is the same.
Regular Guest
just a thought, there might be some pipe dope or junk on the screen inside the control on the inlet . sounds strange but it does happen. check the orfices for the same. yep i work for the dreaded gas co. in cust. service but what the heck. when not in use all summer creepy crawly things can get in there and then BOOM!!
Regular Guest
Been There, Done That today. This furnace is propane, and we thought we found something today with low gas pressure. Then we realized that it was a slow open gas valve. It starts at about 3.5 pressure and slowly rises to 10. We cleaned all the cob webs out of the crossover pipe, and cleaned the burners. Once it lights, it burns fine. But boy when it lights, once in a while, you know it.
Professional Member
Originally posted by russw58
At this point, I just have a sour taste for the Rheem/Ruud units. I have had problems with this unit since almost the beginning. Almost every electronic component has been replace. I have had the hot surface ignitor go out so many times, I keep one in stock. The last one went out during a blizzard and I lost my heat. I live in a very rural area and the roads were drifted in. BTW, The one from a Maytag dryer is the same.
GET THE HEAT EXCHANGER CHECKED! A cracked heat exchanger can cause alot of parts failures and also loss of life.
Professional Member
Htg is right was at one customer's house and he complained that he had to have the HSI replaced every year! Found one cell cracked on the heat exchanger.Originally posted by htg guy
GET THE HEAT EXCHANGER CHECKED! A cracked heat exchanger can cause alot of parts failures and also loss of life.
Regular Guest
We have done this 3 years in a row...... The heat exchanger is fine.... I thought I stated that in the original post. I am not the average home owner, in that I am an industrial maintenance tech, and I do this kind of thing as part of my job. I only posted because I have run out of ideas.
Regular Guest
It sounds to me that you "professionals" think a furnace shouldn't last over 15 years. And that my model was a POS from the start. At this point, I agree with you as to the quality of the RGEB, but Rheem should stand behind their products, and they don't. I have a Carrier heating my shop that is almost 40 years old, and it is still going strong. Just not as efficient, but it is become clear to me, that they are sacrificing quality for profit.
End of Rant
[Edited by russw58 on 11-12-2004 at 11:27 PM]
Global Moderator
Almost everything from the early days of higher efficiency was junk. It's not just Rheem. They went above the rest of the industry changing out burners, ignitors, ignition modules on their furnaces in the early 90s to prevent problems. No one else did that.
Why is your 40 year old shop furnace still going? Because it cost a pretty penny back then.
You can get a 90% furnace today for about the same price as some 60% furnaces 30 years ago. Adjusted for inflation, that's about the biggest steal on the market. Why are they that cheap? Cuz the manufacturers cheapened them because John Q. Public wasn't willing to pay more. Cheaper cabinetry and heat exchangers, internal components all made in 3rd world countries. I've watched HVAC sales for 13 years now. When I started selling furnaces in 1991, we weren't hammered for bottom dollar. Today it's a fight among dealers trying to undercut each other because in most cases the HO will buy the lowest bid. Look at all the people who come on here wanting to buy online to save a buck, thinking that by costing the local dealer the equipment sale will help them in the long run.
My rant is over now too
Regular Guest
That type of Rheem furnace on Propane was noted for delayed ignition. As Baldy said igniter placement is important, also i've found that the oriface that feeds the crossover tube can corrode and not let enough gas through to make the carry flame big enough to carry the flame to all the burners. This is especially true on the larger furnaces. Cleaning and slightly enlarging the carry oriface will fix this problem if everything else is ok.
Professional Member
Originally posted by russw58
We have done this 3 years in a row...... The heat exchanger is fine.... I thought I stated that in the original post. I am not the average home owner, in that I am an industrial maintenance tech, and I do this kind of thing as part of my job. I only posted because I have run out of ideas.
You did forget to mention that the heat exchanger was checked thoroughly for cracks. Thats no big deal though, since we are used to knowledgeable people only giving us half of what is usually needed to answer their questions.
The only problem is that when these people start to get ignorant because we are'nt mind readers, it tends to chase most of us away.
I have an idea for you, but I would probably get the boot if I gave it to you.
Professional Member
Furnaces seem to be expected to last forever without breaking down, however with cars you expect to repair things.
In the early 80s every manufacturer rushed to get a high efficiency condensing furnace on the market and they all had flaws.
The standing pilot gas furnace with a draft hood is a much simpler system and the technology was refined decades ago.
Rheem's furnace went through many changes, they tried to get rid of the cracking clam shell heat exchanger and went to the drum furnace. The drum design did not stand up so they went to a tubular heat exchanger of all stainless steel construction. The primary and secondary heat exchangers are stainless steel as a factory standard. The cabinets are small, compact and quiet.
IMHO it is the best high efficiency furnace out there.
The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.
http://www.ductstrap.com/
Professional Member
Why not modify the control as was instructed back in the mid 90's. Alot of manufactures used a compnation ignitor sensor set up provided by the igition control manufacturers. When it was determined that the flame sensor could be loacted at the other end, a proper flame would have to be established for the unit to stay lit. It would shutdown and try again. The ignitor was mentioned as well. I think there was a retrofit kit availble that would put the ignitor in a better position to avoild premature failure. Both cases were efforts for the mfg to improve your experience but it sounds to me like neither were done.
My question would be more along the lines of who has been working on it that wasnt aware of these issues in the industry?
I gotta tell you, in the 80's some prertty nutsy things were developed in the chase for the holy grail of gas heat (90%+). There was the plexivent, there was the pulse there was the drum there was the recalls of many brands for heat exchangers which were not sufficient for the moisure. The 40 year old unit you reference had none of this crap in it.
Should you replace it? Thats up to you but at some point the fixes are going to cost as much as a replacement. Furnaces built today are built to last for 20-25 years if installed and maintained properly (good airflow, proper combustion air, venting etc.), water management and heat removal is no longer an issue. If you dont like hot surface then dont let me scare you with this but Rheem uss direct spark igintion while many other brands still use the hot surface ignotor you loath.
Regular Guest
If there are modifcation kits available, why have none of the service companies known about them.
I bought this furnace from a local dealer when I built my house. I figured support the local economy and have the service person close at hand.
A year later, the guy gets a divorce and the business folds. I'm screwed.
So I go with another local contractor. A fairly large shop. Does a lot of new home installs. he comes out and, says replace the burner, and goes away. That didn't fix it, and he wouldn't return my calls.
Last year I go with another LARGE contractor in the area. They checked for a crack heat exchanger, put in a new hot surface iginitor and left. I asked that their sales people call me about a new furnace. I never got a response.
This year, I go with another large contractor that has been in business for 30-40 yrs in the area. Their tech can't find anything, and their service department says they are aware of the problem, but have never been able to resolve it.
I asked that their sales people call me, and I still have not heard from them.
I guess since I am not a building contractor with 30 new installs, they are not interested in a single sale.
Regular Guest
doc what year did the rheem start using the spark ignition?I have a ten year old rheem with hsi
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