DV horz. run

[sorethumbs]

The manual says to pitch horz. run for a DV fireplace 1/4" rise per 12" run. Says to pitch in the direction of the vent. Can anyone tell me why? Can condensation form in the outter pipe? Anyway, my installers put this pipe in level (no pitch). However, the total horz. run is only about 12-16". Anyone see a problem brewing here?

[hearthman]

Yeah I see a problem. You ignored the listed instructions! Now, if that unit has any problems, the factory can wash their hands of it.

What can go wrong?
-fire, sooting, shutting off, odors, premature failure of components, and melted vinyl siding for starters.

Factories spend hundreds of thousands of dollars designing, testing, listing, and monitoring appliances. Here you come and want to throw all that out the window. The best part is, if there is ever an Ooops!, the opposing side can subpoena your computer records, including this list. You posted here you installed it improperly. You cannot ever erase emails and internet postings. There are companies that make a damn good living reconstructing your words.

Do yourself and the homeowner a favor--go back and install it correctly.

So what brand and model Fp is it?

They pitch up because it required it to pass the listing and to run properly. Condensation is not really a factor with gas direct vents under most conditions with short runs but it can be on longer runs. Actually, pitching it up pre-disposes it to rain penetration.

Hearthman

[sorethumbs]

Wow, didn't quite expect that. But, to be honest, you really caught my attention untill that last part. The vent is pitched up to get listed, but pitching it up can result in rain penetration? That makes no sense. I can eaisily change this install. It's still in rough-in condition. I'm not sure if you caught the part about the horz. run being approx. 12". The change would involve dropping the unit 1/4 inch!!!!! Is brand/model really important? I assume pitching the vent pipe is universal to all DV Fp's.

That being said, you really did not answer the actual qustion....WHY IS PITCH REQUIRED? I'm talking from a function standpoint. You said WHAT might happen, but not WHY it might happen. What is the actual purpose of the pitch?

PS - I did not install it improperly! I had nothing to do with the install, I'm not sure how you came up with that. I specificaly said the installers (who were paid for their services) did the work. Not to be rude but your post could have been worded more nicely, and it was not all that helpful in answering my question.

[Collin]

And you happened to take the brunt of his frustration.
Get the installers back and get them to move the vent terminal up the 1/4- 1/2" it needs. Please ensure they maintain clearance above the vent pipe!
Upward pitch helps maintanin draft.

[rich pickering]

We installed a DV a few years ago. Proper pitch and clearances. A month later it was sooted up because it had no draft.


It HAD proper pitch. The carpenters lifted it and put the subfloor underneath it.Now the vent was level.Took me a week to figure it out.

[sorethumbs]

Thanks rich, How long was your horz. run?

[rich pickering]

about 12"

[chimney doc]

Gee thanks Collin. I sure appreciate your personal attack against me. Look, just because you like to live on the edge and not always follow rules doesn't make it a good thing for you to condone that behaviour on a public information list such as this. I've noticed repeatedly whenever someone asks advice on handle things, you scoff at anyone attempting to play by the rules and laugh in the face of danger. If I was rude or too harsh, say so but keep people's personal lives out of it.

Sorethumbs: I apologize if I can across a little strong but as you can see by Collin's attitude, there is not a full awareness of the legal ramifications of modifying products or not following instructions. I shouldn't have taken it out on you. Still no justification for his uncouth remarks.

If wind driven rain enters the vent system, it will tend to run back into the unit if pitched upwards where horizontal vents tend to form puddles that dry up. Other reasons for pitching it include the aforementioned draft, lowering firebox temps, increasing the stack velocity to overcome shunting of flue gases into the fresh air through sloppy pipe joints, which can cause ghosting and sooting, and so on. If the unit doesn't breathe as designed, the heat signature of the system goes up. This would violate the listing because nearby combustibles would now be hotter than the listing allows. The increased temps would also shorten the life of the Fp and components.

I was referring to where you referred to "my installers" in your original post. For the record, whether employees, subcontractors, or totally independent contractors chosen and contracted with by the homeowners, whomever installs your products is "married" with you on everything you sell and they install.

Pitching is NOT universal to all DVs. Our products can be vented level as long as you follow special guidelines. We passed the listing over a year ago but just completed in-house reliability testing this spring on one brand. Therefore, we just released it.

I'm sharing this because as a technical rep. for a major mfr., I see this sort of thing all the time. I'm trying to keep us both out of court, whether scoffers like Collin recognize the risk or not.

I hope this was more help this time and again I do apologize.

Doc/Hearthman

[sorethumbs]

Well doc that was a much more informative and good-spirited post. Apology accepted. The pitch problem was corrected today. The FP is working great. thanks to all who responded to my post. I've always believed exchanging information is a great thing. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[rich pickering]

Time out guys.

Note the smilies!!!!


Doc, I don't think Collin was slamming you, it sounded more like a joke to me. You did sound a little harsh to the OP. Even he said you caught his attention.

And Collin did say to have the installers do it properly.

And for the record, I agree with you, there is to much liability associated with hacked in systems.

OK, back to the playground.



Note the smilies !!!!!

[Collin]

I was going to come out blasting

Doc, please calm down and re-read what I said.
I simply agreed with you without taking off the posters head, sorry you you took such offense to my comment.

I don't follow the rules?
Bullshit.

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=46977
http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=46976

[Carnak]

Originally posted by chimney doc

Doc/Hearthman

How do you post with two different handles on the same thread in the same forum on the same site?

[chimney doc]

When I went home one day and tried to post, it wouldn't let me unless I registered under a separate name. I have periodically made the fact known I go by both pseudonyms.

Believe me, it was not my preference and I don't have some hidden agenda. Maybe I can get it back to the one name. I've been called a lot of other names but we can't print those here. Sorry for the confusion.

Collin: you and I have differed on opinions in the past. I tend to quote scripture and verse and you tend to shoot from the hip drawing on common sense and obviously years of experience. I don't want to discount you or your knowledge. It's just that when you post on a forum such as this, people often do things based on our advice. That advice can get them in trouble. I know of a case or two where Internet advice almost got the advisor into legal trouble because his advice didn't exactly help someone. As an instructor and mfr.s rep., I have to quote the party line.
Sure, I realize there is the book way and the way its done in the field and I think I am realistic with my views. Please just keep in mind my views are tempered by dealing with product liability cases for a mfr. on a daily basis. I work on a cmte. that reviews and re-writes manuals. I see the fruits of those who vary from the rules so I'm quick to encourage them to follow the rules. I went overboard in my initial post here and apologized to sorethumbs.

Yes, you did advise them to follow the instructions on this case esp maintaining clearances. I was referring to a case or two in the past where you suggested I was wired a little too tight or being too anal about matters and that I needed to lighten up. Maybe I do.

As for me jumping on you I apologize if I was out of line. However, let's find some other way to poke fun at one another than our personal lives, ok? Smilie aside, that tag line was inappropriate. It's done & over.Feud ended.

Next week I'm in sunny Calif for a 6 day Fp inspector's course.


Doc/ Hearthman, or whoever the hell I am this week

[Collin]

Have a great time in California.

[chimney doc]

Thanks Collin. Hope ya'll have a great week.

I have a 09:00a.m.EST conference call tomorrow morning--that means I get up at 05:50 Left Coast time! I'll see what I can share with the list on this Robertshaw valve recall.

Take care,
Doc