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  1. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    Any chance someone wants to talk about the unemployment problem?
    Outside of distractions from Dr. pagey,.. I was thinking that the short term solution might be efficiency, as opposed to innovation. Work with what we got, so to speak. To be clear, not as a long term solution at all or a standing policy. But be honest, we pee away so much energy driving up and down the road, heating and cooling load-calc disasters, and we water grass as opposed to vegetables. We are very wasteful. In a short-term idea, I am thinking we could do much better to just stop the waste.

    That was partially addressing a previous post. I am not sure what that is going to do to help unemployment. On that idea, I am thinking "some job is better than no job" so for starters we could eliminate the minimum wage. But that will only help a small percentage of the problem. I think Reagan kinda focused on education, to dig us out of the Carter era, so that is also a partial solution. Certain people here keep suggesting the loss of manufacturing. I can see that too, but how to fix without killing free trade?. There does not seem to be any clear solutions.

    In any case it looks like we are in a "correction period" of a more personal level and need to address that, not the DOW or NASDAQ or the corporate bunnies Obama likes to pet.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

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  2. #54
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    Nov 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    Any chance someone wants to talk about the unemployment problem?
    OK. I will.

    I have a lot of friends with different businesses that have laid off a lot of their employees. That's statement number one.

    This week I was asked by a friend if I would hire her friend who has an engineering degree, is a P.E. and has some kind of design background. She got laid off & can't find anything.

    Last week I was dancing with this really hot lady who is an archetict (sp) who is getting laid off by her firm next month she said.

    One of my largest HVAC contrat customers has laid off all three of his install crews and some of his less experience field techs. He lead tech told me he doesn't know if they are going to make it. They have been in business for over 20 years and have a stellar reputation.

    I had and air line pilot approach me in a parking lot wanting to know if he could work for me part time as he believed he was getting laid off. He wanted to make some money in a field that would be "easy to learn and make good money".

    At Graingers two weeks ago and the counter guy asked me how business was. I told him. He said his branch was doing very well in sales but in his neighbor of 5 buddies that he hangs around with he was the only one that still had a job.

    One of my good Realtor friends told me last week he hadn't sold a house in 8 months to date. He's always been in the top in sales for years.

    And then there is this story about a physist (whatever).

    I could go on.

    Your turn.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  3. #55
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    Dec 2007
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    4,574
    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    Was your father a "skilled worker" or "highly educated"? Or was he one of the multitudes of unskilled workers in this country that could make a living for his family from 1946-1980? My father was uneducated but a union member and therefore able to raise a family of 6 kids by himself.
    I agree and disagree with points in this statement.

    First, unions are not the way to a better future. It is still the same scenario of the fat cats living off the workers.

    Second, the ability of the underskilled worker to make a living has been all but obliterated by government policies- immigration and outsourcing.

    Illegal immigration hurts more than helps the USA. Look at all the factors involved, NOT just the jobs "no American wants to do" part. If you are illegal and working in this country you do not contribute your share of taxes. If you have a family then more than likely you collect government assistance in at least one, if not many ways, yet you are not paying into the system.

    I am NOT in favor of amnesty for these people either!!!!!!!! If you want to come to this country, come in the legal way and abide by the rules that are established.

    Second, you cannot make a living at those jobs that our fathers or grandfathers did because they are no longer in this country- manufacturing.
    Some people are just not cut out to do the intellectual jobs, but rather manual labor is their niche.

    We need to go back to providing for and consuming things for ourselves. A global economy is made up to allow governments to what is happening now. I am not saying no trade or American made only, but the global economy is an unequal playing field and we are on the loosing end.

    As for wages, you cannot just arbitrarily raise minimum wage!!! What happens to the rest of the people who have earned the higher wage?

    I heard on some program(s) that they want the housing market to start climbing as it did before to stimulate the economy. I guess "... those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it...".

    Jobs are number one and the socialism, government policies, and the "Green" agenda are the enemies at this time. I may be narrow minded, but thus far nobody has given a solid reason for me, and apparently many others, to feel any different.
    The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing the greatest amount of free meals and stamps EVER.
    Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us to "Please Do Not Feed the Animals". Their stated reason for this policy "... the animals become dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves."
    from an excerpt by Paul Jacob in Sun City, AZ

  4. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    Outside of distractions from Dr. pagey,..
    You can't let it lie can you? Not that you would know, but would a smart person in Texas kinda be like being king of the idiots?
    "War is cruelty,and you cannot refine it." Sherman to the leadership of Atlanta prior to burning the city.

    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    Albert Einstein

    Romney campaign: "We're not going to let our campaign be ruled by fact-checkers,"

    Lindsey Graham: “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

  5. #57
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    Dec 2000
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    I'm an old cowhand from the Rio Grande
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    An article on unemployment, because the government's way lowered number just went up to 9.6%, claims that even when jobs do open up, skilled workers will be needed but less skilled workers will have to work for less money...
    Way lowered?

    So why weren't you whining about government's way lowered number during the Bush years?

    The Obama administration is using the exact same methodology as the Bush administration used to determine unemployment figures.

    In fact, had anyone even hinted that unemployment was actually much higher during the Bush years, you would have flown into a hissy while accusing that person of being unpatriotic and demanding that they be imprisioned for sedition.






    Why in the world would people who have little skills expect to be paid as well as people who have committed themselves to learning skills?
    Where did you come up with this? In the example cited in the article, the person just wanted her job back.
    Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

    Chapman Cohen

  6. #58
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    I'm an old cowhand from the Rio Grande
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Obama is now asking for another 50 billion dollars to provide work in the area of infrastructure to stimulate the economy; WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO THE 800 billion dollars he already got for the same exact reason???
    These funds went towards various programs including tax credits for you, education, infrastructure, energy tax credit program (which has been a significant boost for the HVAC industry) medical care and institutional upgrades, not to mention a 1 to 3.4 per cent boost in GNP.

    Hell boy, Bush pissed away that much in Iraq and the meter is still running on that fiasco.

    If you are seriously interested in how the stimulus money was allocated, there are detailed answers on the net. Pennsylvania maintains a website that details stimulus spending even down to the municipal and individual level.

    Of course, your interest seems to be confined to incessantly crying on an internet forum "where did the money go"?



    I just love the governments bullcrap excuse for why this 50 billion dollars be used differently then the 800 billion dollars that was promised to do the same thing; Well, no crap the economy's growth has slowed. The 800 billion dollars was not used to stimulate the economy as it was promised to do so. Now Obama is wanting more money to do the same thing he lied about doing with the first batch of money we gave him.

    And who is going to pay for all of this....again? That's right! By using the guise of hitting the oil and gas companies up for the money, all that is really going to happen is that we all will be paying more for energy.

    I'm really starting to take all of this personal now. Obama is directly attacking me and my way of life, so it is now very personal. I can now say that I actually do feel a disdain for Obama because he has shown over and over that he has a real disdain for me other then what I can do for him.
    Oh dear, we knew it was just a matter of time before the Robo paranoia made it's debut.
    Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

    Chapman Cohen

  7. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    don't forget, these unemployment numbers are only for those actually collecting unemployment.

    There is AT LEAST another 5% to 7% of "employable" people that have either dropped off the unemployment rolls or have simply given up.
    Curious how this statistic was not mentioned during the Bush years.

    I expect it must only be applicable to Democrat presidents.
    Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

    Chapman Cohen

  8. #60
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    Rochester, NY, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by geerair View Post
    Curious how this statistic was not mentioned during the Bush years.

    I expect it must only be applicable to Democrat presidents.

    The same stat has been used since the 70's. Carter on up used the same methodology to give the public "a number" of unemployed.

    Most expert economist complained the first time someone blabbed a Percentage of unemployed because they recognized right away that the numbers were flawed.

    But most people are stupid, and believe that there government would never lie to them.

    So my original assertion that the unemployment rate is not 9.6% (it's actually much higher) because the government does not include those that have either given up or simply have dropped from the rolls because there benefits ran out, is sound and true.
    "Arguing with liberals...it's like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like it's victorious." -- Anonymous

  9. #61
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    Thinking the same way Tool. Need to cut costs in society. If it does not help the bottom line then it is a waste. Say your country saves 5% on its energy bill. That is 5% more that will be freed up to go into other sectors of the economy. And it is not like your energy bill is small change. Shame that would mean less money flowing up over the border but I would rather supply a healthy economy rather than one sputtering.

    I think you are right we will be going through a corection period. I am not a believer in the theory of bailing out the economy with borrowed money. That only shifts the bill over to a later date. In a way this has been a false recovery since we bought our way out of hard times. Because of it we did not learn any lessons and people still think everything might go back to normal. Does not look that way. I think the new normal may be a loss of the middle class.

    Delta. Hate to hear things are that bad. We are not fairing as badly and might even be getting close to employment levels pre-recession. Mind you those new jobs do come with a reduced wage. Looking over your list of people it seems that there is not enough money being spent in your economy to support these people.

    The P.E. and the architect presumably make their money on new projects. The pilot supports the vacation and business end of things, not as many vacations now I guess, business is looking to be more lean now. Parts guy says the infrastructure still needs maintaining so business is still there.

    So the question is what would turn things around to get these people working again?

  10. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    The same stat has been used since the 70's. Carter on up used the same methodology to give the public "a number" of unemployed.

    Most expert economist complained the first time someone blabbed a Percentage of unemployed because they recognized right away that the numbers were flawed.

    But most people are stupid, and believe that there government would never lie to them.

    So my original assertion that the unemployment rate is not 9.6% (it's actually much higher) because the government does not include those that have either given up or simply have dropped from the rolls because there benefits ran out, is sound and true.
    Not sure it is a case of government lying, from the start they said the numbers are not accurate but they needed a repeatable way of measuring what is going on.

  11. #63
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    Feb 2009
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    Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacnw View Post
    I agree and disagree with points in this statement.

    First, unions are not the way to a better future. It is still the same scenario of the fat cats living off the workers.

    Second, the ability of the underskilled worker to make a living has been all but obliterated by government policies- immigration and outsourcing.

    Illegal immigration hurts more than helps the USA. Look at all the factors involved, NOT just the jobs "no American wants to do" part. If you are illegal and working in this country you do not contribute your share of taxes. If you have a family then more than likely you collect government assistance in at least one, if not many ways, yet you are not paying into the system.

    I am NOT in favor of amnesty for these people either!!!!!!!! If you want to come to this country, come in the legal way and abide by the rules that are established.

    Second, you cannot make a living at those jobs that our fathers or grandfathers did because they are no longer in this country- manufacturing.
    Some people are just not cut out to do the intellectual jobs, but rather manual labor is their niche.

    We need to go back to providing for and consuming things for ourselves. A global economy is made up to allow governments to what is happening now. I am not saying no trade or American made only, but the global economy is an unequal playing field and we are on the loosing end.

    As for wages, you cannot just arbitrarily raise minimum wage!!! What happens to the rest of the people who have earned the higher wage?

    I heard on some program(s) that they want the housing market to start climbing as it did before to stimulate the economy. I guess "... those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it...".

    Jobs are number one and the socialism, government policies, and the "Green" agenda are the enemies at this time. I may be narrow minded, but thus far nobody has given a solid reason for me, and apparently many others, to feel any different.
    Will society decide to pay enough for an American to do a job rather than a Mexican wage for the low paying jobs? Will minimum wage pay enough for people to make it to the end of the month? And will they be able to put enough aside so if their employer decides to hang it up they can make it through till they get another job?

    Part of the reasons the low wage earners do not pay any tax is because the government realizes they do not earn enough that they can squeeze their pound of flesh out of them. Because of it we take the hit.

    The government subsidizes low paying jobs with our tax dollars. We could cut them out but that would mean we would have to pay more directly for our burger, or newspaper delivery, fruit and vegetables...

    Maybe we should look at how society really works and rather than tinker with it fix it right.

  12. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    Something JMAC said was just dead wrong, PERIOD. I just pointed it out with a source and link.

    "As far as I can tell"
    I don't care how far you can tell.
    Nope! You are wrong about what you think jmac is wrong about.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  13. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    I agree with much of that. Re: Immigration I think we have to go after the employers also. Stop the source, combine it with limited guest-temp. job programs maybe.
    Yes, we need to go after anyone who is commiting a crime as far as illegal immigration is concerned. If an employer knowingly hires an illegal immigrant, that employer is commiting a crime and should be treated as a criminal along with the illegal immigrant.

    The fact is that if the immigrants were not here illegally, there would be no issue. The problem is that too many in government are allowing immigration laws to be broken without their doing what they can already do with current laws. Making more laws is useless if our politicians and legal system refuses to make use of our laws to thwart illegal immigration.

    Let there be no doubt about it; illegal immigrants are benefitting politicians and judges or they would be treated like the criminals they are instead of being protected as they are.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


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