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  1. #53
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    527
    Water them down! Easy money

  2. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    bedford ind
    Posts
    1,088
    I don't think you have been around enough to make such judgements against the members of this site. This is the best hvac site on the net.

    Technically speaking, the guys this site are very good. The ones that aren't, are learning.
    a small number of them tend to be " opportunists in offense". But that is to be expected. (personal thing)

    The greater number of guys at this site are not just Do it yourselfers.

    THEY HAVE YEARS OF PROFESSIONAL TRAINING

    And I promise you, the guys running this outfit are as good as any and far better than most! You cannot find better.

    And I am not a butt kisser. I've already ran afoul of some of them.

    Most on here take this profession seriously, that is the reason they are on here. You are not going to find a more condensed grouping of helpful thoughts and truths on hvac anyplace else.
    Last edited by ironpit; 04-07-2013 at 11:26 PM. Reason: refer post 46

  3. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Let's make this even simpler.

    If a split air cooled condenser was intended to be listed, what design changes would it have.

    For starters a stainless steel find and coils....and frame and pan.

    Air cooled condensers are designed to be air cooled. If you want evaporative cooling, get a small cooling tower and shall the water treatment and blow down controls, then install a water cooled heat pump out better yet a chiller.



    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

  4. #56
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,933
    Some of you are really trying to make this much more difficult than it is. Just take the condensate line that you already have going from the indoor coil to the outdoor unit area and direct that water onto the outdoor coil. No additional pumps, no nozzles, just reroute the condensate line.

    If you want to get a little better control of when condensate is introduced to the coil, have the condensate empty into a container with a solenoid valve connected to a 1/4 tube with holes in it run around the top of the outdoor coil. The container fills up whenever condensate is running out of the condensate drain, but doesn't allow that condensate to flush over the coil until the unit turns on and the container solonoid valve is opened.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  5. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    bedford ind
    Posts
    1,088
    soooo........How much bucks are we saving with all this?

  6. #58
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Western KY
    Posts
    1,221
    Quote Originally Posted by ironpit View Post
    soooo........How much bucks are we saving with all this?
    IMHO it will cost more then it will ever save. The 10-20 bucks a month, possibly, in electric savings will be offset by the additional cost needed to prevent or remove the scale. I mean really if it was a good idea wouldn't we all do it?

  7. #59
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Bristol NH
    Posts
    229
    Quote Originally Posted by crazytekkie View Post
    I dont disagree that minerals are a problem and depending on the water in ones town more so some places than others. Yes aluminum can have issues with some descalers but Im telling you thru actual experience and doing the deed not just theorizing how it should act that it works and works well. Obviously this is more practical on smaller AC units that are ground based so a person can monitor build up and address it with demineralizing easier and we arent talking using a full concentrate descaler nor waiting until your cooling fins have become so encrusted that its impossible to remove all deposits. My applications did not needed any sort or actions and it ran all summer in Las Vegas. In fact the light amount of depositing that did happen seems to saturate with water and actually improved cooling even better. This isnt a cure all without some intervention. There is always a trade off. You need better cooling, you are going to have SOME more work than just leaving things status quo but it works and works well. I havent spent years of R&D to perfect the application as I'm not looking to promote some sort of sale of a product to do such a thing, I did it with items kicking around the house and common sense knowledge and experimenting. And it worked.. Most on here just give a short bashing on an idea without knowing although there have been some with actual helpful thoughts and truths. I think many are so content with how things are in general on any topic that they would bash an idea out of looking into further. ANyone still content with the horse and buggy?? Why do we need cars?
    I can say I have plenty of experience with this situation. When I started here 15 of the 25 ton carrier RTUs had sprinkler s running on them all summer for the previous few years. They were still locking out. The condenser coils were packed with minerals, airborne dust and grime because the coils were wet and now deteriorating so bad the flaking aluminum was getting sucked into the ofm windings. I tried absolutely everything but could not save them. It has taken me 2 summers to change all those 4 inch thick coils at 5500. Each! Plus all the ruined fans at several hundred and 3-4 semi hermetic compressors. If you do the math I don't think they saved much.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

  8. #60
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,933
    Using condensate, I save money in energy, the system is able to handle the load better and there is no issue with any minerals or scale.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  9. #61
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Bristol NH
    Posts
    229
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Using condensate, I save money in energy, the system is able to handle the load better and there is no issue with any minerals or scale.
    I agree Condensate definitely would better than spraying hard ground water on warm aluminum coils. How do you distribute the water over the coil? Do you use a condensate pump?

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

  10. #62
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    378
    A lot of window shakers have condensate splashers built onto the condenser fan motor .

  11. #63
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,176
    Spraying water on to a dry coil is a bad idea, but misting the incoming air is not, and need not cost a lot.
    I use the finest cheap domestic irrigation mister nozzle $1.00 (a few depending upon the size), a simple irragation sol valve which is controlled by a simple klixon, either ambient or liquid temp. All the parts for well under $100.
    The spray mist is pushed approx 12inch away from the coil, so the whole air flow (low velocity) passes through the mist. The coil does not get wet. any excess water just fall to the ground (along with concentrated TDS and free TDS becomes a invisible dust and passes straight through)
    As far as energy saving, 1C drop in SCT (condensing temp) reduces power by approx 3.5%. The system does need to kept in a reasonable equilibrium, hence the kilxon.
    A good idea badly applied does not make the idea itself bad, which does seem to be the case here on this thread.

  12. #64
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    378
    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Spraying water on to a dry coil is a bad idea, but misting the incoming air is not, and need not cost a lot.
    I use the finest cheap domestic irrigation mister nozzle $1.00 (a few depending upon the size), a simple irragation sol valve which is controlled by a simple klixon, either ambient or liquid temp. All the parts for well under $100.
    The spray mist is pushed approx 12inch away from the coil, so the whole air flow (low velocity) passes through the mist. The coil does not get wet. any excess water just fall to the ground (along with concentrated TDS and free TDS becomes a invisible dust and passes straight through)
    As far as energy saving, 1C drop in SCT (condensing temp) reduces power by approx 3.5%. The system does need to kept in a reasonable equilibrium, hence the kilxon.
    A good idea badly applied does not make the idea itself bad, which does seem to be the case here on this thread.
    cool. What kind of flow rates are you talking about going through one of those misters? Like 1gph or some small number like that? Depending on how much it runs, it might be expensive...especially if you're on a water meter. Do you have to worry about mineral deposits accumulating on the coil?

    A nice side effect is sometimes on really big misters, you get a secondary cooling effect with the water evaporating off the roof. Locally, some walmarts have sprinkler heads set up on their roof. When ambient temps rise sufficiently, they spray down their roof with water.

  13. #65
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,176
    Quote Originally Posted by timtanguay View Post
    cool. What kind of flow rates are you talking about going through one of those misters? Like 1gph or some small number like that? Depending on how much it runs, it might be expensive...especially if you're on a water meter. Do you have to worry about mineral deposits accumulating on the coil?

    A nice side effect is sometimes on really big misters, you get a secondary cooling effect with the water evaporating off the roof. Locally, some walmarts have sprinkler heads set up on their roof. When ambient temps rise sufficiently, they spray down their roof with water.
    If I remember rightly each nozzle is around 5l/h (depending upon the water pressure), we are lucky do not really pay for water, so it is simple which is more expensive water or power and by how much. I have to say generally these are installed because of performance than direct energy saving, and can say a heap on capital cost, if peak load requirement, is sporadic. (It is a very cheap method of capacity control) with the use of EEV, then the operation range is starting to increase (keeping a good equilibrium)

    The water does not hit coil, so mineral deposits are not the issue. if you look at the link in a previous post, they are cooling the air not spraying the coil.

    Have seem many building spray roofs to reduce heat infiltration. I believe the Germans use a totally wetted roof (for a similar effect)

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