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  1. #1
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    A church in W.DC.

    I did not know this.
    Did you?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlfEdJNn15E

    .
    Those who dance, appear insane to those who do not hear the music.
    Those who believe, appear ignorant to those who do not know God.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by cehs View Post
    I did not know this.
    Did you?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlfEdJNn15E

    .
    You did know it because it is not true. The US Congress did not even exist in 1782.
    "War is cruelty,and you cannot refine it." Sherman to the leadership of Atlanta prior to burning the city.

    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    Albert Einstein

    Romney campaign: "We're not going to let our campaign be ruled by fact-checkers,"

    Lindsey Graham: “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    You did know it because it is not true. The US Congress did not even exist in 1782.
    Actually it did, but the states had not ratified yet. It was called the Continental Congress. That became the US Congress after ratification.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_fridge View Post
    Actually it did, but the states had not ratified yet. It was called the Continental Congress. That became the US Congress after ratification.
    The Continental Congress and the US Congress are not the same. We were operating under the Articles of Confederation at the time.

    All the Continental Congress did was allow their chaplains to review Aitken's work. They denied all his other requests. The quotes Barton gives are Aitken's quotes not the Continental Congresses.

    Here is the entire resolution.

    "Whereupon, Resolved, That the United States in Congress assembled, highly approve the pious and laudable undertaking of Mr. Aitken, as subservient to the interest of religion as well as an instance of the progress of arts in this country, and being satisfied from the above report, of his care and accuracy in the execution of the work, they recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States, and hereby authorise him to publish this recommendation in the manner he shall think proper."

    Full volume available on the Library of Congress A Century of Lawmaking website:
    Journals of the Continental Congress, vol. 23

    Do you guys ever get tired of being lied to by these jokers?
    "War is cruelty,and you cannot refine it." Sherman to the leadership of Atlanta prior to burning the city.

    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    Albert Einstein

    Romney campaign: "We're not going to let our campaign be ruled by fact-checkers,"

    Lindsey Graham: “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    The Continental Congress and the US Congress are not the same. We were operating under the Articles of Confederation at the time.

    All the Continental Congress did was allow their chaplains to review Aitken's work. They denied all his other requests. The quotes Barton gives are Aitken's quotes not the Continental Congresses.

    Here is the entire resolution.

    "Whereupon, Resolved, That the United States in Congress assembled, highly approve the pious and laudable undertaking of Mr. Aitken, as subservient to the interest of religion as well as an instance of the progress of arts in this country, and being satisfied from the above report, of his care and accuracy in the execution of the work, they recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States, and hereby authorise him to publish this recommendation in the manner he shall think proper."
    Yes, I know. But they were the congress of the time, and transitioned to the US Congress. Granted, there were changes in their scope after ratification.

    I don't think the dude said which congress.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_fridge View Post
    Yes, I know. But they were the congress of the time, and transitioned to the US Congress. Granted, there were changes in their scope after ratification.

    I don't think the dude said which congress.
    I could have sworn he did. I also added my source for the resolution on my previous post BTW. I would watch it again but I don't think I could get through it.
    "War is cruelty,and you cannot refine it." Sherman to the leadership of Atlanta prior to burning the city.

    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    Albert Einstein

    Romney campaign: "We're not going to let our campaign be ruled by fact-checkers,"

    Lindsey Graham: “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

  7. #7
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    Being from there, I knew most of that. Every Federal Building I've been in, which is probably all of them, there is engraved or marked the desire of the blessing/leadership of "God" for the occupants of the building.

    The Capitol was used for church services but there were so many people attending the services ---- interesting enough the services were not really based around any one religion ----- that churches were built around Capitol Hill to supply places of worship so the Capitol services were discontinued.

    Most of Washington DC is really swamp ground. The Capitol is built on the highest point of land and is the center for DC. It was not only built on that ground as it was the driest, but being the highest point meant if was of great importance.

    Architectually speaking, DC was designed by an European designer where the tallest buildings were the most important. In Europe the churches were always the tallest buildings as they were the most important to the people. So the Capitol was designed with that concept in mind.

    Later in history places like NYC built skyscrapers much taller than chruches because we started to follow money more than a God. Go to cities such as NYC and you will see the very old chruch that are tucked away next to very large skyscrapers.

    And the lady on top, Miss Liberty, is pointing to east -- to Europe -- to make sure that the Europeans got the message that these states were individual and free from Europe. And free to follow their religions of choice and not dictated by a king.

    Capitol Hill Southern Baptist Church is or was a few blocks away from the Capitol. It's a building and a place of history to visit. One of the most historical Churches in DC, and there are a ton, is the New York Ave. Presbyterian Church, which is still in existance.

    All the churches has a great influence on and in the Capitol and the Federal Government not that too many years ago. It's only been recently that "God" and the concept of the postive aspects of "God" has been chased out of our Federal System by intellectualism.

    Not too many Presidents ago seeing the President and his family leaving their chruch on a Sunday morning was a very common thing on the local news. Bill Clinton was one of the first to break that theme. And what's his face doesn't even register now.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  8. #8
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    thanks, i was looking for internet info on Barton's Wall Builders



    i believe there is still a chair in the Capitol called "The Jefferson Chair", where he attended services every week.
    ...and he was the least religious

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cehs View Post
    I did not know this.
    Did you?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlfEdJNn15E

    .
    Barton is a known forger and has had to remove numerous bogus quotes from his books.


    His story about the bible and congress is a myth.
    Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

    Chapman Cohen

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by geerair View Post
    Barton is a known forger and has had to remove numerous bogus quotes from his books.


    His story about the bible and congress is a myth.
    Dear geer, since you made the claim that Barton is a known forger perhaps you would enlighten us with clear examples of such forgery. It is one thing to make the claim and something very different to back it up with evidence.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  11. #11
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    Below is a short section from an essay by Greg Koukl reacting to the issue regarding the church affiliations of our founding fathers. It turns out that our founding fathers were very much into church membership and a serious interest in following the Holy Scriptures as they understood it. Their world view was based on the Bible and its teachings. Here is a portion of Greg's essay.


    "This issue is actually very simple. The phrase "Founding Fathers" is a proper noun. In other words, Founding Fathers refers directly to a very specific group of people (although I think you could be a little bit flexible and include a little wider group of people). Those who intellectually contributed to the Constitutional convention were the Founding Fathers. If we want to know whether our Founding Fathers were Christian or deists, one needs only to look at the individual religious convictions of those 55 delegates of the Constitutional convention.

    How would we know that? We look at their church membership primarily, and also at their correspondence. Back then church membership was a big deal. In other words, to be a member of a church back then, it wasn't just a matter of sitting in the pew or attending once in a while. This was a time when church membership entailed a sworn public confession of biblical faith, adherence, and acknowledgment of the doctrines of that particular church.

    Of those 55 Founding Fathers, we know what their sworn public confessions were. Twenty-eight were Episcopalians, eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutheran, two were Dutch Reformed, two were Methodist, two were Roman Catholic, one is unknown, and only three were deists--Williamson, Wilson, and Franklin.

    To heap more fuel on the fire of my point, of the 55, the Episcopalians, the Presbyterians, the Congregationalists, and the Dutch Reformed (which make up 45 of the 55) were Calvinists, for goodness sake! In other words, these weren't just Christians, these were among the most extreme and doctrinally strict Christians around. Of the 55 delegates, virtually all of them were deeply committed Christians. Only three were deists. Even Franklin is equivocal because, though not an orthodox Christian, Franklin seems to have abandoned his deism early in life and moved back towards his Puritan roots. Indeed, it was 81 year old Franklin's emotional call to humble prayer on June 28, 1787, that was actually the turning point for a hopelessly stalled Constitutional convention. We have his appeal on record thanks to James Madison who took copious notes of the whole proceeding. His appeal contained no less than four direct quotations from Scripture. This does not sound like a man who was hostile to the Christian religion.

    But this assessment doesn' t answer a more fundamental question: Are we a Christian nation? It seems clear that most of the Founders were Christians, not deists. But what about the question "Are we a Christian nation?" I think the answer depends entirely on what is meant by "Christian nation."
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    "This issue is actually very simple. The phrase "Founding Fathers" is a proper noun. In other words, Founding Fathers refers directly to a very specific group of people (although I think you could be a little bit flexible and include a little wider group of people). Those who intellectually contributed to the Constitutional convention were the Founding Fathers. If we want to know whether our Founding Fathers were Christian or deists, one needs only to look at the individual religious convictions of those 55 delegates of the Constitutional convention.
    First off only 40 of the 55 voted for ratification. Using your reasoning how did those 15 intellectually contribute?

    But thank God historians don't use your reasoning.
    The Founding Fathers of the United States were the political leaders who signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776 or otherwise took part in the American Revolution in winning American independence from Great Britain, or who participated in framing and adopting the United States Constitution in 1787-1788, or in putting the new government under the Constitution into effect. Within the large group known as "the founding fathers," there are two key subsets, the Signers (who signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776) and the Framers (who were delegates to the Federal Convention and took part in framing or drafting the proposed Constitution of the United States). Most historians define the "founding fathers" to mean a larger group, including not only the Signers and the Framers but also all those who, whether as politicians or jurists or statesmen or soldiers or diplomats or ordinary citizens, took part in winning American independence and creating the United States of America.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundin..._United_States
    "War is cruelty,and you cannot refine it." Sherman to the leadership of Atlanta prior to burning the city.

    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    Albert Einstein

    Romney campaign: "We're not going to let our campaign be ruled by fact-checkers,"

    Lindsey Graham: “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageyjim View Post
    First off only 40 of the 55 voted for ratification. Using your reasoning how did those 15 intellectually contribute?

    But thank God historians don't use your reasoning.
    The Founding Fathers of the United States were the political leaders who signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776 or otherwise took part in the American Revolution in winning American independence from Great Britain, or who participated in framing and adopting the United States Constitution in 1787-1788, or in putting the new government under the Constitution into effect. Within the large group known as "the founding fathers," there are two key subsets, the Signers (who signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776) and the Framers (who were delegates to the Federal Convention and took part in framing or drafting the proposed Constitution of the United States). Most historians define the "founding fathers" to mean a larger group, including not only the Signers and the Framers but also all those who, whether as politicians or jurists or statesmen or soldiers or diplomats or ordinary citizens, took part in winning American independence and creating the United States of America.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundin..._United_States
    So! So, what is your point?
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

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