Mechanical Engineers

[Carnak]

Do what ever makes you happy, just don't blame outsourcing for your life's problem.

More to engineering than sitting in a cubicle. We aren't all Dilberts.

[golf junkie]

I worked in engineering for 12 years before I got myself fired when I told my boss to "piss off" when he wanted me to spend my Easter weekend at work rather than with my family.

I've been working in the trades as an electrician for the past 10 years. I do miss some aspects of engineering but I don't miss the stress and the impossible deadlines.

[MadeinUSA]

There is more to engineering than just sitting in a cubicle designing. Performing consulting work and getting into the sales side of the industry is very challenging and constantly motivating you as well as meeting different people all the time to break the monotony.

I would suggest you get your engineer degree in whatever you want and then get a minor in finance, because if you climb the ladder or ever decide to go into business yourself, either way you will need to know the number side of the business. Cash flow is king, and you will need to understand how all the financials work.

[hockey]

I agree with "Do what makes you happy". I also agree with "Engineering and Finance" comment. My original point is that alot of engineering is now outsourced to India and Asia. MANY of my engineer friends are unemployed as a result. I am lucky because I can do a trade. I am still learning, too. Having been in both careers, I prefer the (apparent) security of the trades. It's a better choice. Times have changed. The advice I got from my parents was, "Get a college education and get a good job in a big company. They'll take care of you (i.e. benefits...)".

[huckmeat]

I'm an ME, (by training, but I do rocket stuff by day). I did lots of calcs for my house, but my HVAC guys know their stuff (Really, my calcs were just to see if I had a ballpark, so I could tell when a prospective contractor was oversizing stuff or guessing.). However, it probably took me 3 weeks to figure out what my (sharp) HVAC guy did in an afternoon.

In a typical ME curriculum, you get:

Materials
Statics (think bridge strength) and Dynamics (think car suspension)
A ton of thermodynamics and heat transfer (5-7 semesters)
Fluid dynamics (laminar, turbulent flows, pressure drop, etc).
You'll get basic electronics, a couple of semesters of chemistry,
a course or two on programming, a lot of really crazy math, a lot of physics.
A couple of courses on controls
A course on instrumentation.

And after all that, you get into the real world, and pretty much just use an off the shelf program or two (depending on the nature of your job) and the right angle trig you learned in high school. And you will probably make more as a tech... That is, until your boss figures out that the guy in India will do your job for 1/10th the pay. It happens.

[hockey]

I worked at 6 Engineering jobs that consisted of transitioning work to Asia and India. Alot of the canned programs (heat transfer, thermo, etc) were written in India. I now have friends in those countries. Mexico is now doing drafting work for governement contract jobs. Romania is going to be building jet engines. China already does. China also mass-produces medical devices for the major providers. Castings are overseas and in Canada. Even phone support is in Bombaii.
As the Boston Globe news said: Anything that involves a computer can be shipped overseas. That's why all the new jobs created were in retail and the trades (home building/renovations).
My BSME openeed alot of doors for me, but it's not enough anymore.

[Carnak]

The internet makes the world small.

Computer programming, designing a part etc can easily be done via the internet, so can designing mechanical, plumbing and electrical systems for buildings.

I am down on an island where the cost of living and the cost of doing business is easily double that of Miami. My main competition is 'outsourced' work, done by South Florida Engineering companies WHO are always cheaper than I am. Some architects virtually use these firms exclusively.

But it is difficult to do things from far away, it is almost like trying to solve a HO's heating system problem by what they describe to you over the internet. If a job is really challenging such as a major rennovation or addition to a commercial building, I will pick up the normally outsourced work as it gets too expensive for them to start flying in people multiple times and putting them up in hotels.

I do not make my living picking up the tough crumbs that cannot be outsourced. I have my own customer base as well.

There are a lot of jobs out there that cannot be outsourced and there is a shortage of engineers. You need to get your time in and follow through and get your PE or PEng designation. Use the Dilbert jobs to get your time in. Also remember that when you get your degree, it just gets your foot in the door. 95% of what you need to know will be learned through experience.

Hands on experience and the degree can make you quite valuable. Working the trade can also give you more satisfaction and more pay if you are good. Myself, I got tired of threading gas pipe outside when it was -30C.

Contractors will argue with engineers when there are a problem on the job. I don't see them flying in some one from Punjab or Karachi every time a duct conflicts with a beam.

[hockey]

No, but the local project manager will note the changes and email them to the Draftsman for revision. The "shortage" of engineers has been met via outsourcing. There is no longer a shortage.
The PATs are getting creamed!

[Carnak]

But the Red Sox won, you guys are good for a few season with out the Pats, Sox , Celtics or the BRUINS every winning again.

[du mech eng]

i've read most of these posts and they all make good points. it all depends on what you are looking for. one thing i would like to recommend is try posting this question in an engineering forum as well. this forum is very technician bias, especially the residential section. a lot of the people on here try to make engineers look like dilberts that sit behind a desk all day. i'm sure there are jobs like that in the engineering industry, but working in the hvac industry as a consultant is not one of them. check out http://www.eng-tips.com, they have an hvac engineering section over there, also some sections that deal specifically with career oriented questions rather than technical questions.

[Carnak]

Originally posted by hockey
No, but the local project manager will note the changes and email them to the Draftsman for revision. The "shortage" of engineers has been met via outsourcing. There is no longer a shortage.
The PATs are getting creamed!

The project manager must be an engineer then.

[hockey]

Not necessarily. It could be a foreman with an A.S. degree too.

[Carnak]

Then the original PE who designed it is off the hook. He can't be held liable for the change to his design.

[hockey]

Just like in manufacturing where engineers have been replaced with outsourced talent (proficient in software tools), there may only be one engineer involved in a project now, where there used to be an entire building. The engineering trade began to shrink when the slide rule was replaced with the calculator. This is another example where proficency in a trade is more valuable than a degree. Of course, having both should be even more valuable.
I had a government-contract job where I rounded up and shipped papers, drawings, parts, etc to India and then spoke to them every morning (it was 11 PM there). I was told that for every USA engineer this defense contractor could hire 12 from India.

[Carnak]

Hockey

It sounds like the engineering work you did was not heavily into HVAC or construction.

[hockey]

Yes, That's correct. Like I said, manufacturing. A degree opens the door to many fields. I don't see alot of HVAC engineering jobs on Monster.com or elsewhere. In fact, I am rubbing elbows with unemployed/laid off HVAC engineers.

[Carnak]

I give up then, I guess I am just lucky to have a job.

The ratio of tech jobs to mech engineering jobs at another site not supported by this one was 166 to 37.



[Edited by Carnak on 11-02-2004 at 12:11 PM]

[hockey]

So the ratio speaks for itself. There are alot more technician jobs than engineering jobs.

[Carnak]

Always has and always will be.

[hockey]

Looks like we lost the originator, daver back on page one. Daver, change to EE (they are more valuable (they get more money and better job security). I hope you are going to a good school. My school started with over 300 freshman but I graduated with only 90. Even though I was in the bottom third at graduation I was in the top 1/10 as a frosh!