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  1. #1

    Replacement system sizing? Load Calc vers Quotes.

    Home built: 2000
    Size: 2064, measures 1842
    Construction: Wood frame, brick, full slab
    Insulation: R38 Celling, R13 walls
    Celling: 10"
    Windows: 26, single pane (384 sq ft total)
    Current HVAC: 4 Ton, SEER 10 Amana
    Issue: High electric bill (500 June/July/Aug), lack of proper cooling (can't get the house below 78)

    I have had three in-home quotes for a new system. All three have quoted the same size system based on installed equipment. None of them did any kind of load calculations. Sears collected some of the data, but the rep's computer was in the shop.

    So after reading this forum, I saw the need to do the load calc myself. Much to my surprise, the load calc results came is far lower then expected. With single pane glass windows, it came in at 2 tons. With double pane glass windows it came in with 1.5 tons. So how can the installed system be so over size?

    I would really like to get the right kind of system installed, and finding someone that will do it right seams to be hard here in Houston. Any comments on where I can find someone here in Houston would be great. Or anything else I can do to insure i get the proper system.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    6,323
    Give me a call number is in my profile.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,837
    It is not uncommon to find over sized equipment installed and even less uncommon to find a hack who will accept any size that's on the existing system. Finding a company that will do a proper load analysis is a must. The test is to ask them over the telephone how they size the equipment. Don't invite any company that doesn't clearly state that they're doing it room-by-room Manual 'J' load analysis in for a quote, as you're wasting your time. As you already suspect, they're gambling with your money! They might be cheaper on the install in initiallly but might also be lots more money in operating expense and hugely more expensive when it comes to lack of comfort. So shop carefully.
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    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    16,000
    Quote Originally Posted by 2HotInHouston View Post
    finding someone that will do it right seams to be hard here in Houston.
    Houston does not have any patent on finding folks to do a job right, trust me, there all over this Country and other Countries.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  5. #5
    Thanks, I read this already. That was a great read.
    Quote Originally Posted by skippedover View Post
    It is not uncommon to find over sized equipment installed and even less uncommon to find a hack who will accept any size that's on the existing system. Finding a company that will do a proper load analysis is a must. The test is to ask them over the telephone how they size the equipment. Don't invite any company that doesn't clearly state that they're doing it room-by-room Manual 'J' load analysis in for a quote, as you're wasting your time. As you already suspect, they're gambling with your money! They might be cheaper on the install in initiallly but might also be lots more money in operating expense and hugely more expensive when it comes to lack of comfort. So shop carefully.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,837
    You're welcome. I know it will help if you use it.
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    New Caney, Texas
    Posts
    360
    Mr Bill

    Houston does not have any patent on finding folks to do a job right, trust me, there all over this Country and other Countries.
    This is the correct deal, no better and probably not any worse than any place else.

    IMO they only way to decide on a company to do any major work either at your house or business is to talk to several. 3 seems to be a good place to start. If you are still not satisfied do a couple more.
    There are a bunch of really good contractors out there. Also some who are looking to separate silly folks from there $$$$.
    Good Things Come To Those Who Wait, But Only the Things Left Over By Those Who Hustle.

    Abraham Lincoln

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Albuquerque NM
    Posts
    2,485
    Quote Originally Posted by 2HotInHouston View Post
    Home built: 2000
    Size: 2064, measures 1842
    Construction: Wood frame, brick, full slab
    Insulation: R38 Celling, R13 walls
    Celling: 10"
    Windows: 26, single pane (384 sq ft total)
    Current HVAC: 4 Ton, SEER 10 Amana
    Issue: High electric bill (500 June/July/Aug), lack of proper cooling (can't get the house below 78)

    I have had three in-home quotes for a new system. All three have quoted the same size system based on installed equipment. None of them did any kind of load calculations. Sears collected some of the data, but the rep's computer was in the shop.

    So after reading this forum, I saw the need to do the load calc myself. Much to my surprise, the load calc results came is far lower then expected. With single pane glass windows, it came in at 2 tons. With double pane glass windows it came in with 1.5 tons. So how can the installed system be so over size?

    I would really like to get the right kind of system installed, and finding someone that will do it right seams to be hard here in Houston. Any comments on where I can find someone here in Houston would be great. Or anything else I can do to insure i get the proper system.
    Most contractors will oversize if given the chance. It's safer for them because it avoids even the slightest possibility of having enough capacity. Most homeowners don't even know that a system can be oversized. When I tell my neighbors their systems are oversized I get a quizical look from them. When I try to explain it, I usually get a blank stare and sometimes their eyes glaze over.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,176
    Call Al, there's one who knows what he's doing with Houston humidity! Glad he's offered to help. Always nice when a HT member is nearby.

  10. #10
    He is scheduled to be on site, this afternoon.

    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    Call Al, there's one who knows what he's doing with Houston humidity! Glad he's offered to help. Always nice when a HT member is nearby.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    16,000
    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    Call Al, there's one who knows what he's doing with Houston humidity! Glad he's offered to help. Always nice when a HT member is nearby.
    Your right! Houston seems to be the "Bermuda Triangle"of heat and humidity, it takes a lot of years of experience, living and working here to get a system right. If you think you can just perform a load calc. here, and run with it, your mistaken, you better also have lots of experience and some common sense here, or you will get yourself into some deep, deep do do.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,837
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post
    Your right! Houston seems to be the "Bermuda Triangle"of heat and humidity, it takes a lot of years of experience, living and working here to get a system right. If you think you can just perform a load calc. here, and run with it, your mistaken, you better also have lots of experience and some common sense here, or you will get yourself into some deep, deep do do.
    Enlighten me Bill. What's different about the heat and humidity in Houston?
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    16,000
    Quote Originally Posted by skippedover View Post
    Enlighten me Bill. What's different about the heat and humidity in Houston?
    The only way I can enlighten you is say, come live and work here for about 10 years and you will see, as I said Houston is like the "Bermuda Triangle"of heat and humidity, it's different trust me, and I can't answer you to why it's different, but it is.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

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