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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    160
    I work in a 20 story high rise. 10 yr old building.
    Trane chillers water cooled condensers, open loop.
    We are changing water treatment companies. The new
    company says we will not have to clean the condenser tube
    bundles because the chemicle will take care of that.
    In the past we punched the tubes with a Goodway machine.

    Do you guys punch tube bundles every year or not?
    I feel proper water treatment will eliminate this task.

    Thanks for your comments.

  2. #2
    I wish it was only once a year. Now with the higher efficiency machines, with "enhanced" condenser tubes, we have found it necessary to punch tubes 3 to 4 times a summer.
    We have always had excellent Chemical Treatment, but have found that the internal rifeling in these tubes will catch and hold suspended particles, (not Scale deposits), causing Condenser approach temps to rise. A quick punch and approach temps drop back to 1.5 to 2 degrees.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    128
    I would keep accurate records on approach. And until I was sure they were doing what they say, pull the heads every year to inspect tube condition.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Southern Tier, NY
    Posts
    6,066

    yea ....

    look at approach, amp draw, etc ....then determine what you need to do & when ...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    south Mississippi
    Posts
    185
    Better to to inspect and clean tubes at least once a year, at your convenience, than to have to do them during an emergency shut down in the middle of summer. The chem guys may be good, but when the machine goes down they are no where to be found, and it's my butt with all the teeth marks from the bosses a$$-chewin. Do yourself a favor and don't take this stuff the chem guy says as the gospel truth. It may be 60% sales pitch? Good chem treat prevents having to clean repeatedly but does not eliminate our need to maintain the machine from time to time.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    6,966

    Talking

    right after they do the chemicals tell them to slip in a plate heat-x and that will solve you punching tubes.if you have commercial jobs with chillers and tubes all around you should be seeing the difference in the enviorments that the tower washes as it cycles the condenser water.not cleaning your tower throth and the top section can kill you in the hot weather even with clean tubes.you should alternate the sides you punch but who wants to drop the pipe side?
    "when in doubt...jump it out" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1qEZHhJubY

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,990
    I have serviced chillers that had excellent water treatment. When you punched the tubes nothing came out. They were spotless. I felt it was a waste of time but they wanted it done every year.
    Your poor planning does not constitute an emergency on my part!!!!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Western Wa
    Posts
    1,838

    Whoa larry, you must have really bad water.

    I've never heard of such a thing in a properly treated tower.
    God Bless our Veterans

    God Bless the USA

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    San Jose, Ca
    Posts
    2,089
    Keep an eye on your temps and amps.

    When I worked for the Emporium Store we did a chiller every other year. Aand most of the time the tubes were clean, b ut we were able to gain info on how we were doing.
    Len
    Old snipes don't die they just loose their steam

  10. #10
    We rod them out every year, just to make sure there are no obstructions in any of the tubes. The tubes may not look dirty, but using a nylon brush on them can only be benefical.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Greenville SC
    Posts
    432
    It's a good idea to drop the heads once a year to check-up on the chemical company. They make their money selling chemicals, and some of them get a little carried away with it. To much chemical can cause it own fouling, and damage the tubes.

  12. #12
    we punch once a year,also gives a chance to electronic leak test tubes and eddy current if required--the chemical guys dont do that.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    7,977
    We punch our condensor tubes every winter during the yearly stops and the evap gets done every 4 years w/eddy on both. Even though the tubes are extremly clean it gets done on the concept of better safe than sorry, and it don't cost that much since the low guy on the pole gets the honors.

    One thing we do is have the water treatment company boroscope the tubes w/video tape.

    But agreeing with absrbtek if the tubes are that clean and you run a scope through why brush them? We do it cause the "Man" says to.

    Rob: If they are saying without any inspection that their chems will clean the system I would be interested in what the plan of attack is. Sounds like they are going to acid clean it before initial treatment and although it will clean the system there is also a very good chance it will cause leaks in the building.

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