Large wine cooler

[mark beiser]

One of our customers wants to build a large wine cooler, and wants us to come up with something to cool it.

His tentative plan was to get one of those prefab 10'x14' sheds set up in his back yard and insulate the heck out of it. He wants to keep it 50 degrees inside, fortunatly he talked to us before he got it up with textured and painted sheet rock walls like he was planning to.

I havn't ever done anything like this, but I know condensation is a serious issue, especially with the thing sitting in his back yard in Texas.

If someone could point me in the direction of some good info on constructing such a structure, and the equipment to cool it, I would appreciate it.

He doesn't want to spend a fortune on it, but he wants it to work well. Evedently he plans to store a lot of wine in it.

[rocket]

HERE'S A LINK THAT SHOULD GIVE SOME GUIDELINES:
http://www.winecellarinnovations.com/ref_prep.htm

[rayr]

Originally posted by mark beiser
One of our customers wants to build a large wine cooler, and wants us to come up with something to cool it.

He doesn't want to spend a fortune on it, but he wants it to work well. Evedently he plans to store a lot of wine in it.

People never cease to amaze me as to what asses they can really be. Gonna spend a lot of money on wine (or is it Whine) and not want to spend a lot to protect his investment. And another HO that is smarter than the people who do this and have done this for some time. Could be some pretty expensive Vinegar. Good Luck.

[danfoss engineer]

Out of curiosity, how are you guys covered for liability? Say you accidentally screw something up and this guys $500k in wine gets ruined or likewise a supermarket rack with perishable food. Are you guys covered by some kind of HVAC contactors insurance? How much are you covered for and does it cost you a fortune (i.e. doctor's malpractice insurance)?

This is all just to satisfy my own personal curiosity. If it's sensitive info of any sort I understand if you don't want to share.

Danfoss AE

[rayr]

I carry 3 mil public Liabil, 2 mil completed operations with umbrella coverage that includes product transportation.

[icemeister]

As I understand it, a customer's product loss if it's due to a failure of the system to maintain conditions is considered consequential damages. I'd have to hire a Philadelphia lawyer to determine if I'm covered for that or not.

All I can say is I've been in this business for over thirty years and have never paid out any thing for a customer's loss of product.

Then again, I don't do system installs or service the ultra-rich litigious wine-cellar types.

[danfoss engineer]

Originally posted by icemeister
Then again, I don't do system installs or service the ultra-rich litigious wine-cellar types.

The Breezaire thread made me think about this. We sell Breezaire fractional compressors and every once and a while we get urgent requests for a teardown on an out of warranty compressor (they use a non-R134a gas in our R134a or R12 compressors, hence no warranty). This isn't to get credit on the compressor in case it was a manufacturing defect, it's because they got the "ultra-rich litigious wine-cellar type's" lawyer screaming multi-million dollar law suit at them. I have to assume this is a higher margin business than most refrigeration businesses but sheesh you've got to cover yourself against some serious lawsuits.

I'm really glad that when I screw up some Engineering calcs all that happens is someone's (non-million dollar) drink gets warm.

Danfoss AE

[clydemule]

Check out http://www.apexwinecellars.com. I don't know if this guy wants to spend this much money, but you can buy cooling systems from them specially designed for wine cellars. THe have a little through the wall unit, vinotheque I think it is called, and CellarTec, which is a small chiller.

My old company builds the chiller for these guys.

If this is a standalone building a through the wall type is best.

As for the liabilty, our chillers cool MRI equipment and a bunch of other products. Every once in a while a customer hits us with a bill for replacement helium, lost production time, etc. Unless there is some sort of contract the mfg. is not liable.

I don't see any greater liability in this case relative to all of the current construction defect suits due to mold.

Clyde

[R12rules]

If the guy is spending a small fortune on inventory, he should consider doing two additional things to this structure before heever begins.


1) consider redundancy in cooling equipment. And automatic backup if the primary unit fails for any reason. Cell towers have this on all of their sites.
It's a no brainer.

2) also like the cell sites, dial out alarm. If the guy lives in an exclusive gated home community, he has a guard at the front gate.
The guard and or the customer's home security company can be notified whom to call for service if and when the primary cooling unit is down. Also if the room temp begins to rise despite what the cooling units are doing.

People with a lot of money like to be gone from home a lot. This often leaves the product of refrigerated boxes up to whom ever happens to notice they are in distress.
Like the maid or a guest.

Why take the gamble?

[condenseddave]

Originally posted by rayr

Originally posted by mark beiser
One of our customers wants to build a large wine cooler, and wants us to come up with something to cool it.

He doesn't want to spend a fortune on it, but he wants it to work well. Evedently he plans to store a lot of wine in it.

People never cease to amaze me as to what asses they can really be. Gonna spend a lot of money on wine (or is it Whine) and not want to spend a lot to protect his investment. And another HO that is smarter than the people who do this and have done this for some time. Could be some pretty expensive Vinegar. Good Luck.

It's WHINE ray, trust me.

Half a mil in product, but he doesn't want to spend a fortune to cool it.

If it were me, I'd have redundant units running lead/lag in 12 hr periods, with a full DDC with pressure trandsucers, liquid level monitors, humidity sensors, etc.

But, ray, I guess the real question is:

Why do you and I give a shit?

[steve36558]

Ah BreezAire systems...the guys @ the factory who installs sight glass for cap tube systems....Condenser that are rated not exceed 95 degree outdoor temp...Oh and sell to Phoenix. If your customer who is going to spend lots of money on wine, stay with a commercial system like Copeland, Bohn, ect...and have the unit sized for you areas outdoor conditions. I always oversize the unit alittle to cover those strange days that we never get....Murphy Law seems to come to mind...lol...Most important sell a alarm that has memory...