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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Back in 90' while we were initially being lied to about the wonderful world we were about to enjoy once those pesky CFC's were done away with and the technicians were all working on the same page, with one accord, in perfect harmony .....(adnauseum) .....this kind of thing was never supposed to happen!

    All that talk about the wonderful energy savings due to the new blends .....

    Well Gentlemen, and ladies..... if we have suposedly retrofitted 100 systems which suposedly now operate 5% more effeciently than before, while they were operating on the REAL refrigerants .... then that is just "hunkey dorey"!
    However, there is bound to be many system which are yet in dire need of balanced refrigerant and charging.
    What I mean is there are way too many systems out there which were never labeled and have been mis charged, mis-adjusted and mis-retrofitted over the years!
    And the customers are not savy enough to catch the mistakes and are leary anyway of how some fly by night service techs have kept their systems online. And they're not going out looking for second opinions!

    How many systems operating at MINUS 5% are there now?
    How many operating at 10% less effeciency than when they ran R-12, R-502 ?

    How many are even worse off than that?

    One system operating worse than before, say by 20%, cancels out the effeciency of FIVE equal sized systems which are now suposedly operating at a energy savings of five percent each!

    Used to be simple. Come upon a system low on charge, it was pretty obvious which gas was inside.
    Hardly any guess work involved.

    Cost to customer for a top-off was around 90 minutes at $50 an hour and on a system the size of a pizza kitchen walk in box, holding ten pounds of refrigerant, maybe two to three pounds of freon was all that was necessary.

    $75 labor, $10 or less for freon. And if the leak was right there easy to find, that could almost include most repairs too.

    With service call or truck charge fee and taxes added in ... maybe just over a hundred bucks.

    That didnt demolish a manager's P & L statement. That repair cost did not cancel out their bonus for that period.

    And now ...for that same scenario today with all these blends out there and when there is no labels ... that same scenario would cost FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS!!! EASY!!!

    With an assumed energy savings of 5% and a retrofit cost of $500 .... what is the return on investment, (ROI), time period?

    An average C-store has about ten compressors.
    Some systems hold 18 oz and some hold five to thirty five pounds of refrigerant!

    Unless this equipment is going to be replaced due to age, it is bound to become in need of retrofitting.

    In my opinion. ... the energy savings are being cancelled out by the sheer cost of the new proceedures we must adhere to as well as the new inflated costs of the blends.
    And despite their energy savings, if any, the long term as well as the short term cost to the customer is outweighted!
    In my opinion.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
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    R-12, are you sure

    That you are posting in the right forum. This is, after all the ARP. Quit huffing the refrigerant Dude!!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Thread Starter
    Hey Rob, thanks for the heads up ... but YES, I am sure I am in the correct forum.
    The blends are all about politics.
    They have absolutley NOTHING to do for our industry whatsoever!!!

    And folks here have leaned towards getting pretty hot under the collar in the pat over this subject.
    So that is why I posted it here.

    Ordinarily I would have set it up in General Discussion.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Florida Panhandle
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    I'm in complete agreement with you R12. The retrofitting was nothing but a scam. It served no usefull purpose other than extract some large amount of money from our customers to satisfy a political agenda, so the EPA could claim their fight against global warming. Since there already was a order in affect from selling anymore R12 refrigerant and equipment, what was the point of forcing the retrofits. The natural obsolessence of that equipment would have taking care of that.


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