A couple of observations

[pageyjim]

Madison and Jefferson were conservatives by today's standards. Jefferson for example believed the Bible and even edited his own version. He was not a leftist by todays standards.

Thomas Jefferson quotes.
1) "I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."
2)" History,I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
3) "In every country and every age the priest has been hostile to Liberty"
4) "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
5)'It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there 20 Gods or no God"
6)"It is more dangerous that even a guilty person should be punished without the forms of law than that he should escape."
7)'Question with boldness even the existance of God:Because, if there be one,he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
8) Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions or property in geometrical progression as they rise.
Here is a link to the "Jefferson Bible." BTW he totally eliminated Paul.http://www.angelfire.com/co/Jefferso.../jeffbk01.html


Madison was adament about the division of church and state.

1) An alliance or coalition between Government and religion cannot be too carefully guarded against......Every new and successful example therefore of a PERFECT SEPARATION between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance.......

2) Ecclesiastical establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects.

3) What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people.

4) The number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the state.

5) Strongly guarded... is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States. (He knows since he is the primary author.)

6) To the Baptist Churches on Neal's Greek on Black Creek, North Carolina I have received, fellow-citizens, your address, approving my objection to the Bill containing a grant of public land to the Baptist Church at Salem Meeting House, Mississippi Territory. Having always regarded the practical distinction between Religion and Civil Government as essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, I could not have otherwise discharged my duty on the occasion which presented itself [James Madison, Letter to Baptist Churches in North Carolina, June 3, 1811]

Well here they are, the primary authors of the Constitution, Declaration of Independence and Federalist Papers.

[daytonafan]

Good ole Tommy.

Championed state's rights yet gave us the Embargo Act and Louisianna Purchase.

Spoke against the evils of debt yet was in debt up to his eyeballs till he died.

Believed every man should be free (except black people) of which he owned many. Ya see, he couldn't free them until he was out of debt.

Didn't think women should vote either.

Sounds more like a lib to me...say one thing, do another.

[pageyjim]

Good ole Tommy.

Championed state's rights yet gave us the Embargo Act and Louisianna Purchase.

Spoke against the evils of debt yet was in debt up to his eyeballs till he died.

Believed every man should be free (except black people) of which he owned many. Ya see, he couldn't free them until he was out of debt.

Didn't think women should vote either.

Sounds more like a lib to me...say one thing, do another.

He had some things in common with Jesus the way you describe it. Some things are relative and take time. He helped write a document that could address these things in time.

[daytonafan]

He had some things in common with Jesus the way you describe it. Some things are relative and take time. He helped write a document that could address these things in time.

I know...I just find him fascinating as a human being. Very interesting fellow

[pageyjim]

I know...I just find him fascinating as a human being. Very interesting fellow

I think he struggled with it himself.

[coolwhip]

Its not supposed to be a democracy...its supposed to be a republic.

[printer2]

Its not supposed to be a democracy...its supposed to be a republic.

Democratic republic?

[pageyjim]

Democratic republic?

People's Democratic Republic lol

[pageyjim]

Are you looking for representative democracy?

[glennac]

Are you looking for representative democracy?

Perhaps you are looking for something else? Like a socialist "democracy" like in the old evil emipre which Regan destroyed. Thank you very much

[pageyjim]

Perhaps you are looking for something else? Like a socialist "democracy" like in the old evil emipre which Regan destroyed. Thank you very much

I thought I already made that joke lol. Yours is better though because you also made a statement.

[printer2]

Perhaps you are looking for something else? Like a socialist "democracy" like in the old evil emipre which Regan destroyed. Thank you very much

Regan did not destroy it, it imploded in on itself.

[pageyjim]

Regan did not destroy it, it imploded in on itself.

I agree, Reagan had good timing. Along with many other factors he may have helped fascilitate it.